Maggini 3/4 Violin Identification

[Rachell66]

Hello, 

I have come across a little Maggini here. 

What is the stamp on the back of the scroll? What is this violin? What do you think about the back? Please be specific and give me as much detailed information as possible. When is it from or where? The purfling? 

Thanks for having a look, much appreciated, 

Rachel 

[Blank face]

The Markneukirchen/Schönbach trade often used scrolls with this flattened plateau at the rear side where every wholesaler could engrave a fancy tradename, f.e. Conservatory, Concert, Stradivari, Maggini or whatever was their liking. It's not a real Maggini copy or model, more the usual randomly shaped stuff with a double purfling. This sort of purfling was also a prefabricated commercial product and can be found at all sorts of trade instrument. The rough period would be the time around 1900.

[Wood Butcher]

This is German from Markneukirchen/Schonbach. Datewise around 1900.
Maggini styled, or Brescian fantasy violins will feature double rows of purfling.
This method of engraving the back of the scroll is fairly common, often with Conservatory, Paganini, Imperial etc.
The back wood is maple, and looks pretty average in its quality.

[Rue]

40 minutes ago, Rachell66 said:

...

.. Please be specific and give me as much detailed information as possible.

Are you buying it?

[Rachell66]

Wonderful, thank you for your input

[Rachell66]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

Are you buying it?

No, I am just curious. I would love to know about all the identifying features. 

Why? Should I be buying it? 

[Rachell66]

The back is beautiful, the colour is rich, I wonder if it is original.. 

The front looks a bit filled in unprofessionally.. Don't know what that is all about. 

[Wood Butcher]

2 minutes ago, Rachell66 said:

The back is beautiful, the colour is rich, I wonder if it is original.. 

The front looks a bit filled in unprofessionally.. Don't know what that is all about. 

Yes the colour is original. These were shaded like this, and the belly has pseudo dirt around the bridge area, again totally original.

[Rachell66]

55 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Yes the colour is original. These were shaded like this, and the belly has pseudo dirt around the bridge area, again totally original.

Thanks, 

So let's pick this back for example, it looks sprayed or something. What would you call this back's design? 

Is it French or Chinese rather or could it be a German Violin? It looks really pretty, I like the look of it, no idea how it sounds

[Blank face]

The pinched rib corners and roughly carved scroll puts it into the Markneukirchen or West Bohemian region, or to workers emigrated from there to Bubenreuth if it's postwar.

[Rachell66]

What's rough about it? Can you show me the difference with 2 different violin photos? I hope I am not troubling you too much. Just love learning about the violins. I wish I could go to school to learn about violins and restauration. But I am a mother of 5 kids, and do other things. This is more a hobby

[Blank face]

Look how uneven the chamfers of the volume are carved and at the file marks at the eye. Compare it with the „Maggini‘s“ scroll you posted above, which is (though also traded) made much more even and neatly.

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, Rachell66 said:

Thanks, 

So let's pick this back for example, it looks sprayed or something. What would you call this back's design? 

Is it French or Chinese rather or could it be a German Violin? It looks really pretty, I like the look of it, no idea how it sounds

The flame looks like paint'n'grain .... ie. fake

[Blank face]

4 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The flame looks like paint'n'grain .... ie. fake

Wasn’t this what she meant with „sprayed“? Though the varnish is surely sprayed on, too.

[Rue]

 

3 hours ago, Rachell66 said:

No, I am just curious. I would love to know about all the identifying features. 

Why? Should I be buying it? 

Up to you! It's a fascinating subject/hobby...which is why I'm (always, apparently ) here.

If you have 5 kids...maybe you need 5 (or more) violins? If not, it's still a nice excuse to have.

I have 3 kids. They were in band and piano, so I didn't get to indulge in violins on their behalf...

Which books have you been reading?

2 hours ago, Rachell66 said:

...So let's pick this back for example, it looks sprayed or something. What would you call this back's design? ...

This is called, FWIW, "faux flame".  If well done,  it's a perfectly valid option. It was used to "dress up" the plain woods used to make less expensive instruments. 

The "flame" of the wood doesn't reflect on the quality of the tone of the wood...but people will pay more for tone wood that also has a beautiful pattern.

[PhilipKT]

I am assuming that “pinched ribs” is different from ribs that are properly mitered? Can somebody show a nice close-up picture of pinched ribs and one of non-pinched ribs?

[Rachell66]

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, martin swan said:

The flame looks like paint'n'grain .... ie. fake

The  flame of this one, Germany, Markneukirchen? When you say fake, it's fake flames? Fake from the way it is usually done? I don't have any knowledge about violins, the varnishes, the differentiating characteristics. Do you have any book ideas or websites that I can read to know more?

[Rachell66]

I haven't read any books really just lots of websites, I looked at tarisio quite a bit, the archives, An Encyclopedia of the violin, is a book I looked through.. 

I just can't get enough. 

I mainly taught myself the violin, then I bought and sold some violins. By upgrading them with better tailpiece and better strings,.. I am just fascinated.. But I would like to know what the different models are Amati, Strad,.. The different in build, how it affects the sound. The wood, the quality in build, just everything. The different regions, era, different makers. There is not enough information on YouTube. Usually you can buy courses, or free courses on just about anything but not about violins, or violin making and restauration, oh how I wish.. I would just love to watch hours of it! 

[Wood Butcher]

12 minutes ago, Rachell66 said:

When you say fake, it's fake flames? Fake from the way it is usually done? 

Most woods grow without flames. Maple seems to be more commonly flamed, but even then only one in five hundred trees have flames.

As a result, very highly flamed maple is quite rare and expensive. To imitate this on cheap instruments, it can be painted on, or sprayed on with an airbrush, then varnished over.
If a basic inexpensive instrument has super stripy back, it may not be real flame. Once you know what to look for, it is easier to spot. Simulated flames look too regular, or are curved/angled in un-natural ways.

[RyanJ]

3 hours ago, Rachell66 said:

I haven't read any books really just lots of websites, I looked at tarisio quite a bit, the archives, An Encyclopedia of the violin, is a book I looked through.. 

I just can't get enough. 

I mainly taught myself the violin, then I bought and sold some violins. By upgrading them with better tailpiece and better strings,.. I am just fascinated.. But I would like to know what the different models are Amati, Strad,.. The different in build, how it affects the sound. The wood, the quality in build, just everything. The different regions, era, different makers. There is not enough information on YouTube. Usually you can buy courses, or free courses on just about anything but not about violins, or violin making and restauration, oh how I wish.. I would just love to watch hours of it! 

Read the Hill Stradivari book. It's a book that most of us have read. It's a little dated, but it gives insight on how one of the largest firms surveyed and researched instruments. 

[FiddleDoug]

"Fake from the way it is usually done?"

Real flame isn't "done", it's there naturally in select trees/logs. Most of the time, you can't tell it's there until the log is milled. Fake flame is either painted, or acid treated into the wood. I'd say that the back, ribs, and neck are fake flame. The flame effect is called "chatoyance" (cat's eye). with real flame, if you look at the back, and tip it back and forth, the appearance changes. With fake flame, the appearance doesn't change.