AlmaViolini Posted May 19, 2020 Report Posted May 19, 2020 Hey guys, i was wondering, if any of you had an idea, where my violin could've been built and what it might be worth. For context, I am southern german and still live there. I got it the violin from my grandma, who got it from her aunt, where it was used as wall decoration. It is said that my grandma's uncle might have bought it from someone on the street. So no one knows where this violin was made... I'm not asking for this because I want to sell the violin, I'm just really interested, because I love the sound of it and I think the wood on the back looks amazing. I hope you pros have some ideas, which rough area it might come from. Thank you all so much in advance!
AlmaViolini Posted May 19, 2020 Author Report Posted May 19, 2020 Oh, I forgot to say: the violin does not have a label inside
PhilipKT Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 Does it have a bow? I can’t comment on the violin except to note the odd hole in the scroll and suggest that it needs some serious cleaning. Serious cleaning. But it seems in great shape and well worth cleaning up and investigating.
Fossil Ledges Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 Maybe, that's where they had it hanging as a wall hanger.
Rue Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 Yes, the hole is for hanging...but was it done before the initial sale by the "factory"? Or was it done down the road by some practical owner? Looks very sturdy!
PhilipKT Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 It is really dirty, but your violin is very like a German cello I acquired about a year ago, called “the rat” it looks much like your violin, although I don’t know whether the cello is Markie or Mittie. You live near Mittenwald so your violin logically came from there. My cello sounds amazing and I’m sorry it wasn’t bought by one of my own students, but yours might also sound good. But clean it...
Fossil Ledges Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 How did it get "the rat" for nomenclature?
Fossil Ledges Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, Rue said: Yes, the hole is for hanging...but was it done before the initial sale by the "factory"? Or was it done down the road by some practical owner? Looks very sturdy! Aerodynamics? Makes a whistle if you swing it?
AlmaViolini Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Posted May 21, 2020 Thank you all so much for the comments! Yes, the hole was made for hanging it on the wall, probably by my grandma's aunt. It sadly doesn't whistle, though I got it with one of those fake Tourte bows, but I don't know if that was the same one my grandma's uncle got it with, as he played the violin quite a lot. How does one clean a violin? I have been playing this instrument for around 12 years on and off and have to admit, I haven't been taking great care of it. But I am happy to invest in getting it cleaned. The violin was completely repaired when I got it 12 years ago. As I was really young I don't exactly know what was replaced. 4 hours ago, PhilipKT said: It is really dirty, but your violin is very like a German cello I acquired about a year ago, called “the rat” it looks much like your violin, although I don’t know whether the cello is Markie or Mittie. You live near Mittenwald so your violin logically came from there. My cello sounds amazing and I’m sorry it wasn’t bought by one of my own students, but yours might also sound good. But clean it... Oooh that cello looks gorgeous! *-* And the varnish and neck really do look a lot like my violin... I actually live closer to the Czech Republic than to Mittenwald, and my grandma lived even closer to the czeck border. Still Bavaria, though
Delabo Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 It does not look to be Markneukirchen. Did Mittenwald ever have a delta to the scroll back ? Did Neuner & Hornsteiner sell trade violins without a label ?
AlmaViolini Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Posted May 21, 2020 I'll attach some pictures of the bow. It is beautiful, sounds great and makes playing really effortless, so I had it repaired by a bow maker in Bubenreuth a few years ago. But it is obviously one of those fake Tourte models that a lot of germans seem to have inherited The thing with the origin of the violin is, that the only thing I know is that it wasn't new when my grandma's uncle got it. Taking into account around what time he acquired it and living in Germany during that time I wouldn't be surprised, if he got it off a jewish person or a Sinti and Roma :/ That would make it incredibly heartbreaking, but also even harder to know, where it is originally from... It's like a little detective game, that I'm very bad at because I don't know anything about how violins are built
FiddleDoug Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 From what I am seeing, it looks like a pretty standard Markneukirchen type instrument. It has a fairly nice one piece back, but that's not uncommon. I don't see anything that looks Mittenwald to me. The hole was added later.
Delabo Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 I agree it looks a bit "markie" but it appears to have a one piece bottom rib which would be rare for a markie. The front view of the scroll does not look like it ends at 6 o clock. And the rib ends do not look "wonky" enough.
Wood Butcher Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 33 minutes ago, Delabo said: I agree it looks a bit "markie" but it appears to have a one piece bottom rib which would be rare for a markie. The front view of the scroll does not look like it ends at 6 o clock. And the rib ends do not look "wonky" enough. On the rib, the joint can clearly be seen. Hard to judge where the fluting ends from an above shot, really need to see from a different angle. A lot of Markneukirchen violins have very neat rib ends.
FiddleDoug Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 48 minutes ago, Delabo said: I agree it looks a bit "markie" but it appears to have a one piece bottom rib which would be rare for a markie. The front view of the scroll does not look like it ends at 6 o clock. And the rib ends do not look "wonky" enough. Sure looks like a seam in the bottom rib to me, and you can't see the "6 o'clock" from that angle. As for the rib ends- It's not about "wonky", it's about the construction method. Those, along with the delta on the scroll fluting, sure look like Mk to me.
AlmaViolini Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Posted May 21, 2020 I hope this is the right angle for you guys to see the fluting on the scroll...
Delabo Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 23 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said: It's not about "wonky", it's about the construction method. We both know that BOB construction with pinched and glued together rib ends more often than not ends up with less than straight rib ends. Maybe in the better quality later markies they took more care and these are not so assymetrical. Are we suggesting this is a better quality markie ? If it was Fench outer mold we would expect them to be very symmetrical. Inner mold when properly executed would also be pretty symmetrical. I took the line to be a shadow cast by the tailpiece cord but it could also be an off centre rib line I agree. The OP needs to provide better pics.
Delabo Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, AlmaViolini said: I hope this is the right angle for you guys to see the fluting on the scroll... Ok, thank you, that clears it up, it is a markie. (Marknirkeuchen Germany )
AlmaViolini Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) I am sorry for all the delay in the pictures, but it takes hours for my answers to be approved and posted The bottom looks pretty symmetrical to me the way the fine lines continue from one side to the other... It was probably improperly stored for decades, though... Edited May 21, 2020 by AlmaViolini I forgot to add a sentence and didn't want to write 2 replies in one go
Fossil Ledges Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 52 minutes ago, Delabo said: We both know that BOB construction with pinched and glued together rib ends more often than not ends up with less than straight rib ends. Maybe in the better quality later markies they took more care and these are not so assymetrical. Are we suggesting this is a better quality markie ? If it was Fench outer mold we would expect them to be very symmetrical. Inner mold when properly executed would also be pretty symmetrical. I took the line to be a shadow cast by the tailpiece cord but it could also be an off centre rib line I agree. The OP needs to provide better pics. Wait, I thought "wonky" was the construction method, whether inner or outer. I see lots of wonky on the old trade boxes!
PhilipKT Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, FiddleDoug said: From what I am seeing, it looks like a pretty standard Markneukirchen type instrument. It has a fairly nice one piece back, but that's not uncommon. I don't see anything that looks Mittenwald to me. The hole was added later. I only suggested Mittenwald because Alma is closer, and it seemed more likely. I wasn’t commenting on the instrument characteristics.
Delabo Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 Up close the OPs rib corners are slighty wonky and pinched, but not as bad as many are.
AlmaViolini Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Posted May 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, Delabo said: Up close the OPs rib corners are slighty wonky and pinched, but not as bad as many are. What does that mean?
PhilipKT Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 7 hours ago, AlmaViolini said: How does one clean a violin? I have been playing this instrument for around 12 years on and off and have to admit, I haven't been taking great care of it. But I am happy to invest in getting it cleaned. Any luthier can clean it for you. You might be able to clean it yourself but I don’t know what cleaners are safest. Even if it’s no more than a German mass produced bow, your bow appears to be well made and in excellent condition. It’s not worth nothing. BTW your English is fantastic. Respect!
FiddleDoug Posted May 21, 2020 Report Posted May 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, PhilipKT said: I only suggested Mittenwald because Alma is closer, and it seemed more likely. I wasn’t commenting on the instrument characteristics. Location of the owner is a pretty poor reason to suggest an attribution!
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