Hi there. New guy saying hello and asking a question...

[Steven Bollman]

Hi All,

I'm new here and beginning my first violin build. I have worked with wood for most of my life 50ish years. Little background: I've made a number of scratch build acoustic guitars and F5 mandolins using mostly hand tools and elbow grease. I'm a photographer by trade. Anyhoo, I've ordered a couple of posters from The Strad Shop (Antonio Stradivari 'Huberman' violin 1713 , and 'Vieuxtemps' Guarneri 'del Gesù' 1741). I have my wood for beginning to build, but I don't know when the posters will arrive. The Strad Shop is vague about delivery during the pandemic. My brother is sending me his copy of The Art of Violin Making - C. Johnson. So, the question is has anyone built a violin using the plans in Heron-Allen's book, Violin-Making As It Was and Is? I've attached a photo of it. Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

[duane88]

Wait for the Strad posters. Those plans have been the downfall and frustration of many well-intentioned amateurs.

They do look nice on foamcore hanging on the wall. 

[J.DiLisio]

You could print out Strad's P form and get started on the mould for the Huberman if you wanted. 
You can find the forms in the Strad and other models thread at the top of the list. 

[Wood Butcher]

When it was first published, a lot of people used the Herron-Allen plans. Now there are much better resources, so I wouldn’t use this.
For a long time, the Sainton was one of the most controversial Guarneris, and exhibits an unusual appearance, even for a late work.

Wait for your posters.

[Muswell]

You could use some other wood and work from the H-A plans just as a trial.  Making a scroll would be time well invested while you are waiting for the Strad posters.

[not telling]

Scroll, maybe as another suggestion, a baroque tailpiece. That is a such a straightforward project my 10-year-old did it.

[Don Noon]

"Violinmaking as it wasn't and isn't."

A quote from a professional violin maker when I asked him about H-A ~30 years ago.  Now I see what he meant.

The Huberman and Vieuxtemps I think have some fairly atypical/extreme features to them, and I wouldn't want to try copying them as a first project.  I think the "Titian" would be a bit better.

[Wood Butcher]

8 minutes ago, Don Noon said:

The Huberman and Vieuxtemps I think have some fairly atypical/extreme features to them, and I wouldn't want to try copying them as a first project.  I think the "Titian" would be a bit better.

The Vieuxtemps has an unusually full arch for Guarneri, and does not look like any of the others.
What do you see as different features of the Huberman compared to other Strads of the period?

[Don Noon]

12 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

What do you see as different features of the Huberman compared to other Strads of the period?

-The back graduations are extremely asymmetrical in the C bout; normally Strads are pretty symmetrical.

-The top upper bout is thickest in the center, which is the opposite of what Strad usually does (from what I've seen).

-There is an extremely thin area in the top below the treble F hole

The top arch is a bit lower than I'd want, although it probably isn't extremely so.  None of this means that the result would be bad... some folks think the Huberman sounds good, although I prefer other Strads.  It just seems a better idea to start with something more middle-of-the-road before testing out something at the fringes to see what the difference is.

 

[Jim Bress]

Welcome to the crazy train.    Here's a way to draw out your form.  It's good eye training.  Then of course you can just print one out and work from that.  50 (ish) is a common age for amatuer maker to take up the addiction.  Since you're a photographer I hope we can expect lots of pictures from you.

Cheers,

Jim

TwoForms_Denis.pdf

[Shunyata]

I know I started making in the 50ish time frame.  There must be some kind of midlife crisis thing at work.  Get ready for a Magnificent Obsession.  It never stops pulling at you!

[PhilipKT]

4 hours ago, not telling said:

Scroll, maybe as another suggestion, a baroque tailpiece. That is a such a straightforward project my 10-year-old did it.

I’m very impressed with your ten-year old.

My first and only exploration in wood carving ended up with part of my finger tip on the floor.

[PhilipKT]

Somewhere on this site is a superb video of @Manfio carving a viola scroll, from start to finish.

its so clear that I sometimes pretend I could do one myself.

[not telling]

47 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

I’m very impressed with your ten-year old.

My first and only exploration in wood carving ended up with part of my finger tip on the floor.

Yikes! I have cut into my leg before for some dumb piece of wood. And also into my thumb. I get it.

I am also very impressed with my kids, daily. You were right, you said it a couple months ago. My boy wants to make a violin. I knew this time would come. 

My husband also started woodworking, along with every type of handwork, at a very young age. I think this set of skills should be taught in every school everywhere, as in Sweden. The confidence, creativity, and focus a child who completes a complex woodworking project will get is the reason to do it, as the philosophy goes. I've seen that.

When I finish something I think, whew! Finally! I'm not doing that anymore. I like learning and all, but not as much as that kid does. If I had learned that way when I was young I would probably be more process-oriented, which would have helped me in school. 

A photographer, already very process-oriented by nature, should do well with violin making. 

 

[PhilipKT]

52 minutes ago, not telling said:

Yikes! I have cut into my leg before for some dumb piece of wood. And also into my thumb. I get it.

I am also very impressed with my kids, daily. You were right, you said it a couple months ago. My boy wants to make a violin. I knew this time would come. 

My husband also started woodworking, along with every type of handwork, at a very young age. I think this set of skills should be taught in every school everywhere, as in Sweden. The confidence, creativity, and focus a child who completes a complex woodworking project will get is the reason to do it, as the philosophy goes. I've seen that.

When I finish something I think, whew! Finally! I'm not doing that anymore. I like learning and all, but not as much as that kid does. If I had learned that way when I was young I would probably be more process-oriented, which would have helped me in school. 

A photographer, already very process-oriented by nature, should do well with violin making. 

 

 I agree completely, education has nothing to do with either wisdom or morality, but a whole lot of societies problems could be ameliorated if we restructured our educational system and expanded it to allow children to learn to create things. How many great musicians are lost because they’re not exposed to music at a tender age. How many great artists, or even merely competent artists( in any genre) Never discover their gifts because they are never exposed to them? Im a musician In large part because I’ve been around music all my life. I’m so glad your child is choosing to learn. Get him an ID here, Ha ha ha

[not telling]

Morality and wisdom too. Work ethic. I didn't think of that. But yeah, you have to do all of the steps. In something like woodworking...or practicing an instrument... the only one responsible for completing all the steps is---you. And you're going to know if you haven't done everything or if you haven't done it well. So might your teacher, but mostly you will know. 

It might not seem like a moral problem, but if someone is going to sell their work for a premium, it's definitely a moral issue. 

My kid is already selling r/c builds to his school buddies and telling them that lifetime repairs are free. Lol. 

"New Guy": sorry to temporarily hijack your thread. I am easily baited into talking about my children.

[Steven Bollman]

14 hours ago, duane88 said:

Wait for the Strad posters. Those plans have been the downfall and frustration of many well-intentioned amateurs.

They do look nice on foamcore hanging on the wall. 

Thanks. I'll wait for the Strad posters. And I agree, I'll hang it up somewhere if I can find enough wall.

[Steven Bollman]

14 hours ago, DoorMouse said:

You could print out Strad's P form and get started on the mould for the Huberman if you wanted. 
You can find the forms in the Strad and other models thread at the top of the list. 

Thanks, DoorMouse.

It took a bit of learning of scrounging through the thread but did find the many form PDFs. Very cool! A lot of very generous work there offered to folks here. 

[Steven Bollman]

12 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

When it was first published, a lot of people used the Herron-Allen plans. Now there are much better resources, so I wouldn’t use this.
For a long time, the Sainton was one of the most controversial Guarneris, and exhibits an unusual appearance, even for a late work.

Wait for your posters.

Thanks, Wood Butcher. Noted, and I'll wait.

[Steven Bollman]

11 hours ago, Muswell said:

You could use some other wood and work from the H-A plans just as a trial.  Making a scroll would be time well invested while you are waiting for the Strad posters.

Thanks, Muswell. There are still quite a few things I can do before the posters arrive, perhaps the most important one is patience LOL.

[Steven Bollman]

5 hours ago, Don Noon said:

"Violinmaking as it wasn't and isn't."

A quote from a professional violin maker when I asked him about H-A ~30 years ago.  Now I see what he meant.

The Huberman and Vieuxtemps I think have some fairly atypical/extreme features to them, and I wouldn't want to try copying them as a first project.  I think the "Titian" would be a bit better.

Thanks, Don. I don't really expect to attempt faithful copies of any violins, but to use the plans/posters as guides. 

[Steven Bollman]

4 hours ago, Jim Bress said:

Welcome to the crazy train.    Here's a way to draw out your form.  It's good eye training.  Then of course you can just print one out and work from that.  50 (ish) is a common age for amatuer maker to take up the addiction.  Since you're a photographer I hope we can expect lots of pictures from you.

Cheers,

Jim

TwoForms_Denis.pdf 2.46 MB · 7 downloads

Thanks Jim, what a fascinating pdf you attached. I'm really looking for to digging in to that. That looks like a labor of love. 

 

I had a small workbench next to my Dad's when I was about 9 years old. We worked on lots of projects over the years including shipwright work on his 1934 sloop. I'll be 59 in a couple of weeks and feel about ready as I'll ever be to try violin making. I've had my head in instrument making for about 6-7 years now.

[Fossil Ledges]

Yup, foamboard for the C. Johnson plans. Since you have made some mandolins, I have to share this. In about 1981, a year or so before my ex-wife and I were married, I made her a mandolin, the first hand-made one she had. She proudly took it with her, in the white, to the Kent State Folk Fest because she wanted to show it to her friends in some of the folk bands. During one of the evening loud and very inebriated bonfires, my wife was horrified to see one of her band friends smash up a mandolin and burn it. Turns out it was an annual tradition with the musicians. My wife, quickly went and hid her mandolin in the car!

[Brad Dorsey]

8 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Somewhere on this site is a superb video of @Manfio carving a viola scroll, from start to finish...

It's a series of photographs -- not a video -- but it really is superb.  Here it is:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/317301-carving-a-scroll-step-by-step-or-almost/

 

[Steven Bollman]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:20 PM, Brad Dorsey said:

It's a series of photographs -- not a video -- but it really is superb.  Here it is:

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/317301-carving-a-scroll-step-by-step-or-almost/

 

Thank you, so much Brad (and Manfio!!! What a terrific process thread!)!