German violins on eBay, the difference in value between a Mittenwald and a Markneukirchen

[Rachell66]

Hi, I am interested in buying these 2 violins. Please have a look at the photos. The first 7 are from 1 violin the other 4 or from the second violin. 

What can you information do you have about these? Are they of any particular value? Where and when they are from? 

What's the difference in value between a Mittenwald and a Markneukirchen violin? 

Thanks Rachel

[deans]

A lot of overlap.  And a wide range in values for both types. In this case I might expect the M-walder to be priced a  fair amount higher , even though its not a high grade example. Mainly because it looks like the Saxon instrument is even lower grade. 

BTW this is Ebay, there's a zillion things that you cant see that could make either of these completely worthless (they dont have far to go)

 

 

 

 

[Rachell66]

Thanks Deans

Which instrument from the pictures is of better value? Do you know anything about any of these two? Which one is the Saxon? So what exactly are these violins? The guy says that the dark one is a Markneukirchen. The lighter, second one is a Mittenwald but what value do they have, which is better? 

34 minutes ago, deans said:

A lot of overlap.  And a wide range in values for both types. In this case I might expect the M-walder to be priced a  fair amount higher , even though its not a high grade example. Mainly because it looks like the Saxon instrument is even lower grade. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Rachell66
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[Jo Stephens]

Both look nice, I think I prefer the first one based on these photos. Have you had a chance to play them?

[jandepora]

The first one looks like a Neuner and Hornsteiner

[Rachell66]

4 hours ago, jandepora said:

The first one looks like a Neuner and Hornsteiner

How so? Genuine? What could be the value? 

[match]

To me the neck of the Mittenwald fiddle seems not to be aligned, the neck angle seems to be too low, it doesn´t have a decent bridge...  The pictures of the markie tell you nothing than it´s a lower grade instrument as Deans said. If you can get it very cheap  and want to repair the fiddles for yourself it´s a gamble, otherwise it´s crazy to buy without an inspection.

[Rachell66]

11 hours ago, jandepora said:

The first one looks like a Neuner and Hornsteiner

Which one is the Mittenwald? 

How does it look like a Neuner and Hornsteiner? 

[match]

Excuse the short answer, was'nt meant to be snooty. The first one looks like a Mittenwald violin from the second half of the 19th century, the second one like a Saxon violin from the first half of the 20th century. Both instruments are typical and the products of cottage industries, distributed by wholesalers (called Verleger in Mittenwald and Fortschicker im Markneukirchen). Neuner & Hornsteiner and J A Baader were the biggest in Mittenwald. The system of the partial work and the construction methods were different on both places. Typical for each of this both instruments is e.g. the kind of varnish, the model and the work on the scrolls. For the Markneukirchen fiddle (includes the region of the Saxon Vogtland and the border area of the Bohemian Sudetenland) is e.g. the style of the (screwdriver) antiquing and shading of the varnish very typical, for the Mittenwalder this kind of dark red brown varnish. Corresponding to different construction methods the rib corners are executed in typical different ways. But this are only two of many other details. You will find a lot of information in older posts at this forum, Jacob wrote a good list of details and information about the methods to tell them apart. Use the search function. Given the same (acceptable) condition, the Mittenwald violin would be valued higher. But it depends on the work they need. With these Mittenwald instruments you should e.g. always check the stop length, the  relations are sometimes wrong according to today's standards. As said before, according to the photos, there seems to be an issue with the neck.