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l33tplaya

Another SARS-CoV-2 thread -Specifically about Italy and Cremona

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Has anyone heard how Cremona and other violin makers and dealers in Italy have been affected?  With a death count over 10K, and the number of infections skyrocketing, it looks like Italy, and perhaps its luthier industry, will take a hammering.  Though USA leads in number of cases, Italy's population is 1/6 the size of the US, and has 1/3 of the worlds's deaths (IIRC).  Like I imagine most of you, I am very concerned.  Haven't heard any news about this aspect.  @Davide Sora, what say you? 

Also, Manu Dibango, a great African jazz artist died from Covid-19, and John Prine is not doing well... :-(

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My husband talked with Bruce Carlson today. He's well and still in business.  We don't know anyone else in Lombardy well enough to call them up, but, suffice to say Bruce is still definitely doing exciting work even if certain aspects of the business move more slowly now.  Bruce gave us the visceral low down a couple weeks ago and basically said I am stupid for still driving a city bus with cases in my county. So I stopped. I was still doing Instacarts too. No matter how much I was glued to the news, I really did not understand until he said how bad this thing had gotten there, and I realized we would be in the same spot in 2 weeks.  

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I'm still fine and I have no news of dead violin makers, but the information is not given publicly so it is difficult to know. I think we will have to wait until everything is over to draw conclusion.

I stay locked in the house, but I'm lucky enough to have the workshop on the ground floor of my home so I can go on working as before everything started.

Incredibly the whole world has behaved in the same way despite the clear signals from other countries already affected, initially underestimating the situation and then drastically changing course when one realizes the real danger.
Don't make the same mistake, stay at home and take all possible precautions is the only thing to do, it's not a joke.

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If only people in the West had seen the inferno in Wuhan and drawn the right conclusions immediately... I am not blaming regular people, I know that for example in the USA news about China is pretty sketchy. But the experts should have known, and if they did, and spoke to the politicians, and the politicians did not listen, then they must be blamed.

Week ten of mask wearing outside the house, teaching unemployment, orchestral cancellations, and voluntary home self-quarantine here in Hong Kong, where incautious behavior on the part of some is beginning to drive the infection rate up, and the capacity of the health care system is already stretched even in normal times...

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On 3/30/2020 at 4:56 PM, l33tplaya said:

Though USA leads in number of cases, Italy's population is 1/6 the size of the US, and has 1/3 of the worlds's deaths (IIRC). 

This is slightly off topic, but it is extremely important that we be accurate as possible. The United States does not lead the world in anything, China does. China is misrepresenting the actual number of their fatalities, which is in the tens of thousands.

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16 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

This is slightly off topic, but it is extremely important that we be accurate as possible. The United States does not lead the world in anything, China does. China is misrepresenting the actual number of their fatalities, which is in the tens of thousands.

Rubbish, how do you know that Americans are any more accurate? Typical purile urge to blame someone else.

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17 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

This is slightly off topic, but it is extremely important that we be accurate as possible. The United States does not lead the world in anything, China does. China is misrepresenting the actual number of their fatalities, which is in the tens of thousands.

Or to say the same more politely, Philip, you may conceivably be right but where does your "accurate" information come from? 

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17 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Rubbish, how do you know that Americans are any more accurate? Typical purile urge to blame someone else.

Jakob, I’m not blaming anybody else, I’m just pointing out that the Chinese government is not being honest in their reporting

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My source is partly my wife and her friends in China and her Chinese friends who have relatives in China, and numerous articles from reasonable sources, history, and the undeniable fact that the doctor who first reported the virus was arrested and forced to retract, and then died of the virus himself.

If China had the slightest interest in being open about this event, why would they arrest the Doctor Who first announced it?

 

Edited by PhilipKT
Addendum

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29 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Rubbish, how do you know that Americans are any more accurate? Typical purile urge to blame someone else.

History has shown that Those who trust the Chinese government, do so at their peril. I would imagine the people in Hong Kong, for instance, remember the days before 1999 longingly.

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12 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

History has shown that Those who trust the Chinese government, do so at their peril. I would imagine the people in Hong Kong, for instance, remember the days before 1999 longingly.

You can trust the Yanks though, can't you?

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20 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

History has shown that Those who trust the Chinese government, do so at their peril. I would imagine the people in Hong Kong, for instance, remember the days before 1999 longingly.

WHO HERE ACTUALLY THINKS YOU CAN START A THREAD ABOUT COVID 19 AND ACTUALLY KEEP IT ON TOPIC ?

that being said, I suggest "you all" read what I wrote in this post and let it sink in. May 5th

 

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31 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

History has shown that Those who trust the Chinese government, do so at their peril. I would imagine the people in Hong Kong, for instance, remember the days before 1999 longingly.

 

40 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

My source is partly my wife and her friends in China and her Chinese friends who have relatives in China, and numerous articles from reasonable sources, history, and the undeniable fact that the doctor who first reported the virus was arrested and forced to retract, and then died of the virus himself.

If China had the slightest interest in being open about this event, why would they arrest the Doctor Who first announced it?

 

Yes, I thought so.

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2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

This is slightly off topic, but it is extremely important that we be accurate as possible. The United States does not lead the world in anything, China does. China is misrepresenting the actual number of their fatalities, which is in the tens of thousands.

Maybe so. My wife is employed by a Chinese-based  company,  and even she does not trust everything that comes out of China.

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Rubbish, how do you know that Americans are any more accurate? Typical purile urge to blame someone else.

Yes, there is purile urge to blame someone else, in both Austria and the US.

1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

My source is partly my wife and her friends in China and her Chinese friends who have relatives in China, and numerous articles from reasonable sources, history, and the undeniable fact that the doctor who first reported the virus was arrested and forced to retract, and then died of the virus himself.

If China had the slightest interest in being open about this event, why would they arrest the Doctor Who first announced it?

I can understand that somewhat, if the doctor first came across as an unreasonable fearmonger, prior to his information being validated. There is no shortage of unreasonable fearmongers in the US either. 

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57 minutes ago, matesic said:

 

Yes, I thought so.

 

27 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Maybe so. My wife is employed by a Chinese-based  company,  and even she does not trust everything that comes out of China.

Yes, there is purile urge to blame someone else, in both Austria and the US.

I could understand that somewhat, if the doctor first came across as an unreasonable fearmonger.

 Well of course he was not an unreasonable fear monger because he was… Right. As far as blame goes, everybody in the world accepts that it began in Wuhan, even the Chinese accept that, though they are now claiming that it was started by American soldiers. I have not read the details of that claim.

However, my comment was not about blame at all, and there was no reason for Jacob to pivot to that, and to respond to a comment that I did not make.

What I said was that the Chinese government is not accurately, not even a little bit accurately, reporting the number of cases they have, nor the number of deaths they have had. They are being consciously dishonest, and there is a vast history of dishonesty from the Chinese government. There is also a vast and continuing history of suppression of dissent from China, and also a vast history of disdain for any kind of human rights in China.

I’m not being racist in the slightest, I’m not being inflammatory, I’m not being “the sky is falling-ish“ I’m just making a statement that the United States leads the world neither in deaths nor in cases.

You are more than welcome to disagree with me. I’m sure the Chinese government will be happy if you do.

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At least they're not Turkmenistan - which has, apparently, forbid even the use of the words "coronavirus" or "COVID-19" and is banning anyone from wearing a face mask.

I suppose it's reasonable someone should try the "stick your head in the sand approach". 

Maybe it will work. Who goes to Turkmenistan anyway? I mean, if they don't absolutely have to?

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1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

What I said was that the Chinese government is not accurately, not even a little bit accurately, reporting the number of cases they have, nor the number of deaths they have had.

Possibly. Can't rule that out.

The pandemic happened to coincide very closely with the month-long annual Lunar Newyear vacation period, when many factories in China are shut down anyway, or operating on skeleton crews. That makes things even more difficult to sort out.

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I have contact to some makers in Cremona. So far i know nobody of them is infected right now. Happy are those who have their workshop at home. Some packed tools and materials in the last day before lockdown and work from their home. Others are very worry, sitting at home and can do nothing. Of course their are no dealers and customers in the city. Business seems to be down complete. 

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2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

My source is partly my wife and her friends in China and her Chinese friends who have relatives in China, and numerous articles from reasonable sources, history, and the undeniable fact that the doctor who first reported the virus was arrested and forced to retract, and then died of the virus himself.

If China had the slightest interest in being open about this event, why would they arrest the Doctor Who first announced it?

 

Good to keep in mind that people here on MN do not have the right perspective and the responsibility for a  welfare of 1.4 BILIONS people. 

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4 minutes ago, VicM said:

Good to keep in mind that people here on MN do not have the right perspective and the responsibility for a  welfare of 1.4 BILIONS people. 

As I said earlier, if you wish to believe what the Chinese government says, you are more than welcome to do so.

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1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

As I said earlier, if you wish to believe what the Chinese government says, you are more than welcome to do so.

I do not believe the Chinese gonverment.

What you said earlier is :

"History has shown that Those who trust the Chinese government, do so at their peril. I would imagine the people in Hong Kong, for instance, remember the days before 1999 longingly".

That is not true. And the real situation on the ground was known by all other countries early enough.

 

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I see we snuck in 5 posts that were actually about the topic before descending into the same crap that shut down the last thread.

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On 3/31/2020 at 5:09 AM, Davide Sora said:

I'm still fine and I have no news of dead violin makers, but the information is not given publicly so it is difficult to know. I think we will have to wait until everything is over to draw conclusion.

I stay locked in the house, but I'm lucky enough to have the workshop on the ground floor of my home so I can go on working as before everything started.

Incredibly the whole world has behaved in the same way despite the clear signals from other countries already affected, initially underestimating the situation and then drastically changing course when one realizes the real danger.
Don't make the same mistake, stay at home and take all possible precautions is the only thing to do, it's not a joke.

Stay Well :)

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