Sterilizing violins


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18 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

A lady cellist explained the difference between now, and the pre-covid time to me today:

Pre covid, you would cough to distract people from noticing that you had farted. Today, one is obliged to fart, to distract people from noticing that you have had to cough.

:lol:

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Why is this a debate? LOL

Better safe than sorry.  To the OP, do what you feel is safe taking the minimum standards and going from there.  If scientists say 3 days, go an extra day or two.  Rather be healthy and alive to earn a living than sick or dead.

Now...I have a question...scientists and many here are talking about wood and hard surfaces.  Does the varnish make any difference in analysis?  

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On 9/28/2020 at 11:22 AM, violinnewb said:

Why is this a debate? LOL

Better safe than sorry.  To the OP, do what you feel is safe taking the minimum standards and going from there.  If scientists say 3 days, go an extra day or two.  Rather be healthy and alive to earn a living than sick or dead.

Now...I have a question...scientists and many here are talking about wood and hard surfaces.  Does the varnish make any difference in analysis?  

I knew the answer based on reports on studies I've previously read.  However, COVID-19 is new, and what we "know" about the virus can be expected to be a moving target.  I did a quick google search and found an update from the Cleveland Clinic.  I have not read the actual study and I'm usually a bit skeptical about articles reporting scientific findings because they sometimes leave out key qualifiers and context that would lead to different interpretations.  The addition of wood is new, I think.  I would expect an intact varnish surface have more in common with a non pervious surface than bare wood. However, what makes sense, or seems logical, may be quite different than what actually occurs. Also, cleanliness of the surface is a factor.  

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-long-will-coronavirus-survive-on-surfaces/

 

  • Glass – 5 days.
  • Wood – 4 days.
  • Plastic & stainless-steel – 3 days.
  • Cardboard – 24 hours.
  • Copper surfaces – 4 hours.

 

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Hmm.

I suppose we're each yet another 'variable' that relates to how we interpret information as well. ^_^

Better safe than sorry - no problem.  But how many 'layers' of protection do we need to feel safe?

For example; science tells me that if I boil an egg - it denatures the protein by disrupting the bonds, resulting in the liquid protein solidifying and become hard.

If I want a hard boiled egg - I may boil it for 6 minutes (or whatever cooking method you use).  To be safe and not have a runny yolk - I may boil it for 7 minutes.  If I boil it for 30 minutes...it's overkill.

If a virus - (most are short-lived outside of a host) - can still be alive (and there's a question if a virus is even 'alive' as we know it) on a surface after xx many hours or days, that doesn't necessarily mean it can still infect a host.  It may be too weak.  Or - the numbers of virus that are still infectious on that surface might not be enough to cause an infection in the host (viral load), etc.

And...it has to get into your body.  Which means you have to transfer it from a surface to your mucosa (ex. mouth, eyes, nose).  Our hands/skin actually have antipathogenic properties, which is why viruses can't enter our bodies directly through touch. So, we also need to be careful of 'overwashing' or of having badly chapped hands - that might backfire.

So - do wash your hands regularly (but not excessively), especially after touching something you are concerned about...and keep them away from your face...

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  • 5 months later...

I apologize for resurrecting a six month old topic, but I wanted to see what current thinking is for how long to wait between customers trying a violin, and before playing a customer's violin.  My high school-age son was asked to help tune violins and violas for elementary school orchestra kids at a "drive through" school event. (Not sure how that's going to be much help, but something may be slightly better than nothing for families that have no experience with this, I guess.)  There's no guarantee that the instrument hasn't been played immediately before the event.  I don't know how comfortable I am with this.

Are businesses still generally quarantining instruments a few days before playing and between trials these days?

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OK, we've been dealing with this for a year. Has there ever been a documented case of someone catching Covid from a musical instrument? Are there any cases of Covid in the school system? You don't have to put a violin or viola up to your face to tune it. It can be done with the instrument sitting on a pad on a table. Sanitize hands before and after working on the instruments, let the sanitizer dry before touching the instruments, don't touch your face. All should be fine. Around here, the positivity rate for people tested for Covid is only 1.5%. Get your life back!

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You are probably right, but it could be argued that there have been no documented cases because of the care we have all been taking. My personal feeling is that I am going to defer getting my life back until after my elderly mother and my wife and kids have all had their vaccines. We are so close, I don't wanna blow it at the finish line.

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Our positivity rate is 5%, the trend is good, but risk is still 'very high'.  My wife and I are Group 5 so not vaccinated although my son will be heading off to college this fall and may be eligible before us; my daughter is 15 and no vaccine is available for her until much later this year.  We still limit time in public indoors to weekly trips to the store, but not with the kids.  You both make valid points.

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1 hour ago, Televet said:

You are probably right, but it could be argued that there have been no documented cases because of the care we have all been taking. My personal feeling is that I am going to defer getting my life back until after my elderly mother and my wife and kids have all had their vaccines. We are so close, I don't wanna blow it at the finish line.

Well said.

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4 hours ago, Televet said:

 My personal feeling is that I am going to defer getting my life back until after my elderly mother and my wife and kids have all had their vaccines. We are so close, I don't wanna blow it at the finish line.

It must be nice to have the kind of wealth that you can just decide to "defer" getting your life back. I've seen all of the same faces at my gas station/grocery store/department store since this time last year. The same people. Working all this time. What fucking finish line are you talking about? Some people didn't even know they were in a race.

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@arglebargle I am sorry if I said something to offend. The race is to survive long enough to be vaccinated and see this awful pandemic end. I live in a hotspot. Every day I go into work and face another day of fear and stress with my coworkers.  I have been lucky to stay employed. Has it been a struggle, yes it has. I have lost family and friends. I have not visited with anyone outside my immediate family for year. Have not travelled except to my work. Have been working insane hours. I will gladly defer getting my life back until it's safer to do so. It does not feel safe yet. Again sorry to have caused offence.

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19 hours ago, Televet said:

@arglebargle I am sorry if I said something to offend. The race is to survive long enough to be vaccinated and see this awful pandemic end. I live in a hotspot. Every day I go into work and face another day of fear and stress with my coworkers.  I have been lucky to stay employed. Has it been a struggle, yes it has. I have lost family and friends. I have not visited with anyone outside my immediate family for year. Have not travelled except to my work. Have been working insane hours. I will gladly defer getting my life back until it's safer to do so. It does not feel safe yet. Again sorry to have caused offence.

No offense here... I understand exactly what you are saying. I would love to get my life back by opening my shop to the public again... but I will not, until I get the vaccine. My adult children all work, and my bride (of 49 yrs) and I look after the grand kids while they are committed to work. If we catch the bug, the entire family will be legally mandated to isolate and  that would be a major disaster including financially. Masks, sanitization and distancing is a religion for us.

My shop is still busy, .. just all delivery & pickup is via curbside. Its a hassle , but it works.

Stay safe everyone!

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So Mat,

From what I understand, Canada is still in a pretty severe draconian lockdown, with police shutting things down, and fining people. I just looked up your Covid positivity rate, and it's 2.4%. Over here, across the lake, in NY, we've been coming out of lockdowns for several weeks, with partial indoor dining, and most other thing at least partially open (gyms, fitness facilities, bars, schools) and our positivity rate is 1.5% and still dropping. We still wear masks, and some vaccinations are happening. What are you doing wrong? Since the vaccine is only 95% effective, will that be good enough to get things back to normal?

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Hmm. Draconian might be a little harsh. We only had a partial lockdown. We have a big chunk of Canada...^_^

However, we have also been very slow in getting needles in arms...<_<

But! It's gettin' faster! Inventory up!

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8 hours ago, Rue said:

Hmm. Draconian might be a little harsh. We only had a partial lockdown. We have a big chunk of Canada...^_^

However, we have also been very slow in getting needles in arms...<_<

But! It's gettin' faster! Inventory up!

Looks like your area is at 6% positivity?? Stay safe!

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I wish instead of positivity rate (percent tested positive), positivity per 1,000, or some other number was used, to normalize the data. Then the variables of folks that tested negative, total number of tests, and population size wouldn't (possibly) confuse the severity of the infection rate in an area. 

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54 minutes ago, Jim Bress said:

I wish instead of positivity rate (percent tested positive), positivity per 1,000, or some other number was used, to normalize the data. Then the variables of folks that tested negative, total number of tests, and population size wouldn't (possibly) confuse the severity of the infection rate in an area. 

Right. Are they testing people at random, those most suspected of exposure, or mostly those exhibiting symptoms? Early on, we could only get tested if we had symptoms, so that wouldn't give much of idea of the positivity rate in the general population.

I've tended to look at hospitalizations or deaths per capita to get a better idea of what's going on, but of course, that lags behind the infection rate.

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55 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

Looks like your area is at 6% positivity?? Stay safe!

Not even sure what that means.

Rightly or wrongly I've been using the #cases and the mortality rate as my markers.

Regardless, if the vaccine gives us relief (even though we don't know for how long) together with the approach of summer (cyclical reduction in viral activity) we will get a break from restrictions,  "draconian" or not.

But...I'm wondering about a "rebound" effect once you let the goats out of the pen. 

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Since this stuff is really off topic, perhaps we should cut the discussion. One last thing to look at. Around here, there was not the feared  "bump from the Christmas/New Years holidays. There has been a steady decline for the whole of 2021. Check your own area. Continue to take precautions, but be wary of what the government tells you (about anything). I've had my first vaccination, and I hardly even felt the microchips going in.:lol:

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Sorry guys, I didn't mean to prompt folks take off on a broader discussion.  I remembered the topic (how businesses handle kids' school instruments), which was directly related to this current decision for my kid.  Probably best to put this one to bed :-).  Getting everyone in our house vaccinated over the next few months (probably depends on when it's available for 15 year olds) will make this not an issue for me anymore.

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David is right... all depends on where & how data is collected... We use the # of known active cases compared to total population by county. Our area has 151 active cases per 123,000. pop. or ... 1.2%... higher than we would like. we were at 50 cases just a week ago.

I applaud our gov't for the " Draconian" lockdown... If it saves just one life... it is worth it. .....Cheers everyone!

 

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9 hours ago, Mat Roop said:

If it saves just one life... it is worth it. .....Cheers everyone!

 

Cheers indeed!

If it saves one life:

https://www.thedoctorstv.com/articles/the-teen-suicide-crisis-caused-by-covid-19

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/10/911117577/the-pandemic-has-researchers-worried-about-teen-suicide

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/promoting-student-well-being/202009/america-is-facing-teen-suicide-pandemic

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/23/covid-pandemic-rise-suicides/

The lockdowns have been an unmitigated disaster for people all over the world. 

"If it saves one life" is one of the most toxic, fallacious argument every argued. 

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