The old Cremona plagues, who died?

[David Beard]

I got to wondering.

You always hear the lore that the plague swept through leaving only N. Amati standing.  This then is offered to help explain the importance of his subsequent apprentices.

But who exactly died? 

[jacobsaunders]

You could thumb through your copies of the Hill Stradivari and Guaneri books and find out. It could take an hour or two, because Victorian books don’t have an adequate index. It seems that noone else can be bothered

[Dwight Brown]

Not Cremona but in the neighborhood , Maginni it would seem was taken by the plague.

DLB

[Andreas Preuss]

One of the Amati brothers died of the plague. I think it was Antonio, Nicolo Amatis uncle. (Sometimes it happens that I mix them up.)

Otherwise it seems that something like half of the Amati family died, people who are historially not recognized as craftsmen but directly or indirectly played a role in supporting Girolamo and Niccolo in their work.

 

[JacksonMaberry]

As I recall, all the Brescian makers were killed in the epidemic, and all Cremonese makers of note excepting Nicolo. Herr Saunders will hopefully chime in about the plague's effects on Füssen and other Germanic schools of making. I also wonder what happened to luthiery in Venice at this time. 

[David Burgess]

Many or us formerly Cremonese makers, now reincarnated, are able to take best advantage of not only our 17 century training, but also more modern perspectives.

[deans]

16 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

plague's effects on Füssen and other Germanic schools of making.

The Italian plague was around 1620s-30s, I think this was well before German violin making. It was relatively small compared to the black death of the 14th century. There were several "smaller" (relatively speaking,), plague outbreaks in Europe all the way to the 18th century. Maybe some German makers got it.

I believe there was a substantial one in Vienna, but probably also before the violin making era in that area. 

Plague still smolders in some areas, including California. 

[jacobsaunders]

33 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

As I recall, all the Brescian makers were killed in the epidemic, and all Cremonese makers of note excepting Nicolo. Herr Saunders will hopefully chime in about the plague's effects on Füssen and other Germanic schools of making. I also wonder what happened to luthiery in Venice at this time. 

Every Austrian city or town has a “Pestsäule” (monument to the plague) where the holy trinity is celebrated. The one in Krems, which was just in front of my workshop for years, was built in 1738 for instance. This rather pre-dates violin making, the beginnings of which in Austria was in the last quarter of the 17^th C. Thus I know of no violin-makers lost to the plague there, although it killed about a third of the population a couple of generations earlier.

[jezzupe]

2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Many or us formerly Cremonese makers, now reincarnated, are able to take best advantage of not only our 17 century training, but also more modern perspectives.

That's right David

 

[MANFIO]

Anyway, I changed my uniform from "violinaro" to "il dottore".

[David Burgess]

8 minutes ago, MANFIO said:

Anyway, I changed my uniform from "violinaro" to "il dottore".

The beak should be quite handy for stopping the string in the upper positions, where it is so difficult to reach with the hand.

[MANFIO]

1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

The beak should be quite handy for stopping the string in the upper positions, where it is so difficult to reach with the hand.

The beak holds dried flowers (including roses and carnations), herbs (including mint), spices, and vinegar sponge.  It protects me, but I have to change it constantly so that it continues effective.

[Bruce Carlson]

6 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

One of the Amati brothers died of the plague. I think it was Antonio, Nicolo Amatis uncle. (Sometimes it happens that I mix them up.)

Otherwise it seems that something like half of the Amati family died, people who are historially not recognized as craftsmen but directly or indirectly played a role in supporting Girolamo and Niccolo in their work.

 

It was Gerolamo Amati, the father of Nicola, who died in the plague in 1630. His brother Antonio died in 1607. Because Nicola was already 34 years old and well trained, Cremonese violinmaking was to continue. As Dwiight said in an earlier post, Maggini in Brescia died in 1631 and that put an end to Brescian violinmaking until the Amati pupil G.B.Rogeri arrived there c.1664-1665.

[Bill Merkel]

4 hours ago, MANFIO said:

Anyway, I changed my uniform from "violinaro" to "il dottore".

it's amazing how they seemed to have generally the right idea even then

[Bill Merkel]

4 hours ago, David Burgess said:

The beak should be quite handy for stopping the string in the upper positions, where it is so difficult to reach with the hand.

i nose that joke

[David Beard]

So the true bones of the myth are no more than N became head of his house, and his main Brescian competition died?

 

[Rue]

On 3/8/2020 at 3:13 PM, David Burgess said:

The beak should be quite handy for stopping the string in the upper positions, where it is so difficult to reach with the hand.

...on Saturday, we passed a car being driven by a giant crow.

I assume the driver was making a plague mask statement?

I hope he got a ticket...I'm pretty sure it interfered with his vision...

 

 

[Three13]

26 minutes ago, David Beard said:

So the true bones of the myth are no more than N became head of his house, and his main Brescian competition died?

 

Seems that way. It killed his parents and both his sisters, so he may well have been the sole surviving member of his family. I guess that would make his decision to share their methods with outsiders something for which we all ought to be profoundly grateful.

[Bruce Carlson]

4 hours ago, David Beard said:

So the true bones of the myth are no more than N became head of his house, and his main Brescian competition died?

 

What myth?

[Dennis J]

As I understand it, and checking with Wikipedia, bubonic plague in Europe was spread from rats to fleas and then to humans. Its cause was and is a type of bacteria, not a virus. As with a lot of ills at the time people thought that diseases like plague spread through the air. So the beak masks were used in the mistaken belief that they would offer some protection. I think the pope at one time was protected by spending his time during a plague outbreak in a circle of fires which was probably a pretty effective way of keeping fleas at bay, not that they knew the importance of that at the time.

 

 

[deans]

One of my buddies had one of those masks  (a reproduction) . It probably did serve a purpose of being able to deal with the stench of the situation.

Used to work on plague at one point.

[Rue]

Almost!  Rodents are the reservoir for the plague bacteria. The rodent can die from the bacteria. Fleas don't die from the bacteria.

Fleas are generally host specific, but if the host dies, the fleas may try to feed elsewhere.

So...if a rat flea feeds on an infested rodent, it picks up the bacteria. If that host dies, or if no other rodents are around, it may try to feed on a human (or other animal).

If it feeds on a human it will pass the bacteria to the human in its saliva as it feeds. Or the human can pick up the bacteria by handling infected animals. That is bubonic plague.

Once a human is infected they can pass the bacteria on to others through infected tissue (direct handling = septicemic plague) or through infected mucus and saliva (coughing = pneumonic plague).

The plague bacteria is still around. The US has several at risk areas.

[David Burgess]

You doin' alright, Bruce? No confirmed cases in Michigan yet. That's one of the advantages of living in bumf***k.

[David Beard]

2 hours ago, Bruce Carlson said:

What myth?

Ok. Not myth. 

But it feels like this story is often presented as if it sort of explains the ascendance and importance of N. Amati.    

I kinda think N Amati and Cremona might easily have shaped up very much as they did anyway.

 

[Three13]

15 minutes ago, David Beard said:

Ok. Not myth. 

But it feels like this story is often presented as if it sort of explains the ascendance and importance of N. Amati.    

I kinda think N Amati and Cremona might easily have shaped up very much as they did anyway.

 

That’s probably true, although it’s interesting to imagine a world where Maggini was the guy who survived and trained the next generation...