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arglebargle

Cello sound post patch rates

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20 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

you do this sort of repair on a regular basis then?

Jacob I asked a question. If I did this repair on any sort of regular basis, I would not need to ask the question of others, because I would see What the experts are seeing.

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This is getting more and more complicated by the moment. The original post asked about a price for a soundpost patch. The pictured damage involves vastly more than that.

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3 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

This is getting more and more complicated by the moment. The original post asked about a price for a soundpost patch. The pictured damage involves vastly more than that.

Alright, sorry.

Consider it a hypothetical question with a visual aid. Any answers provided here are moot and only serve my curiosity as the decision on how to proceed with the cello will be made regardless of any discussions here.

Perhaps the better question is not the cost of a S.P. patch in this instance, but an estimate for the entirety of the thing. There are clearly many other aspects to this and maybe it is unreasonable to single out the patch outside of the rest of the work. Again, assuming that the owner insists on doing the work (not the case here) and not replacing the top/ trashing the cello.

 Never meant for it to get contentious, just asked a question.

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1 hour ago, arglebargle said:

Why not?

It doesn't not appear that the post caused the crack. It doesn't appear that the crack runs through the post. It doesn't appear that the crack is in an area that would be stressed by the post. Given that the post was not involved, and won't likely be putting any pressure on that area, why would one put in a patch?

Anyway, in this case even less than my original estimate is what I would charge--given that there is no  post crack, so no crack to glue, and no retouching to that crack that doesn't exist. 

The cost of the other damage is a totally different question.

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16 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

It doesn't not appear that the post caused the crack. It doesn't appear that the crack runs through the post. It doesn't appear that the crack is in an area that would be stressed by the post. Given that the post was not involved, and won't likely be putting any pressure on that area, why would one put in a patch?

Anyway, in this case even less than my original estimate is what I would charge--given that there is no  post crack, so no crack to glue, and no retouching to that crack that doesn't exist. 

The cost of the other damage is a totally different question.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Yes, the post didn't cause the crack (an errant cello case did) and yes, the crack does not run through the exact location of the post, but I would call this a sound post crack (among other things) any day of the week. Even though the post does not sit directly on the crack, the post would certainly stress the crack more than if it were located somewhere else.

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32 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

 It doesn't appear that the crack is in an area that would be stressed by the post.

I disagree. However, since this appears to be a fresh and uncontaminated crack, there is the potential to just glue it, and have it end up as strong as the original wood.

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10 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

My mistake!  I missed it!  :-)

(Must have been busy replying.  I type like a turtle.)

Or the post was edited to add the information about the maker...
I didn't see it either when I first read it nor is it in the email I received about the post when it happened.

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41 minutes ago, Mark Norfleet said:

Or the post was edited to add the information about the maker...
I didn't see it either when I first read it nor is it in the email I received about the post when it happened.

Nope. Just a case of three people typing around the same time. Nothing sneaky or underhanded going on.

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On 3/10/2020 at 4:26 PM, Bill Merkel said:

Turned down a 20 grand raise? 

I could give you 200 reasons why 20k in kalyforny is worth about 200$, anyone with half a brain is leaving or planning on leaving, unless of course you are a communist , then it's great. There's nothing quite like free stuff that someone else pays for.

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23 hours ago, arglebargle said:

Alright, here's the damage.

damage.thumb.jpeg.c3e4fa9652e75f7ad4debd0103389a5d.jpeg

 

This is exactly why "we"don't give verbal estimates without seeing anything. One mans soundpost crack is another mans blown out top.

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Jeffrey's question is the most important part of this. Personally I would avoid getting involved in this level of repair of  a cello made by one of my competitors unless I had sold it for them or had a reciprocal mutual aid agreement. Part of people's decision about what to buy should include the availability of repair services.  If I sell an instrument so far from home that it will be difficult to get it back to me then I make sure the sale goes through a colleague who makes enough on the sale to be willing to  take responsibility for helping with whatever issues may arise. On an apparently new instrument such as Argle is faced with the best way to help the customer is to have the maker make a new top or do the repair themselves. Other wise the owner is left with a seriously devalued instrument from a financial perspective even if the function is totally restored

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1 hour ago, nathan slobodkin said:

If I sell an instrument so far from home that it will be difficult to get it back to me then I make sure the sale goes through a colleague who makes enough on the sale to be willing to  take responsibility for helping with whatever issues may arise.

That seems a little weird to me, paying a colleague up front for work that will likely never be needed.

Whenever I have accepted payment from a maker or dealer, it has always been compensation for work I actually performed, not speculative future work. If payment is made in consideration of a sale, I'd rather call that a commission. Nothing wrong with selling on commission. Many makers do it. I'd just rather call it what it is.

When I sell an instrument in a far-away place, a shop in that area which charges reasonable repair and maintenance rates will already be fairly compensated for any needed maintenance, in my opinion.

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59 minutes ago, nathan slobodkin said:

... have the maker make a new top or do the repair themselves. Other wise the owner is left with a seriously devalued instrument from a financial perspective even if the function is totally restored

I'm missing something.  If I buy a violin from you, and made by you, but then David repairs it.

It's devalued?:wacko:

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40 minutes ago, Rue said:

I'm missing something.  If I buy a violin from you, and made by you, but then David repairs it.

It's devalued?:wacko:

I seldom do repairs anymore, but a repaired violin, versus one which is pristine and original, will probably suffer some depreciation in value. Many insurance companies will reimburse for depreciation in value, if you ask for it. If you don't ask, they probably won't volunteer. :lol:

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Then none of Strad's violins should be worth anything...

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37 minutes ago, Rue said:

Then none of Strad's violins should be worth anything...

Strads too are somewhat evaluated on the level of originality and repairs. If the Messiah ever came up for sale, it would probably fetch the highest price ever paid for a violin. Another violin by Stradivari, also with very little use and very little repaired damage (the Lady Blunt) holds the current record auction price for a Stradivari, does it not?

Many years ago, "me boss" purchased a Strad for under 100K. It turned out to be a nightmare of highly-worn parts, patches, and replacement parts. My boss was warned by Francais, who said, "this is not a Stradivari, only a shadow of a Stradivari". But he purchased it anyway, and then I was left holding the bag.

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I'm still not sure how we came to refer to this as " a cello that needs a soundpost patch" this is more like "something heavy hit it {a case?} and smashed in the top".

At any rate it's repairable

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4 hours ago, Rue said:

I'm missing something.  If I buy a violin from you, and made by you, but then David repairs it.

It's devalued?:wacko:

I assume you're joking.  If the maker him/herself simply repaired it, it would still be devalued. If the maker replaces a part (and they do a good job of it), the depreciation is less, or in some cases non-existent.  I think I mentioned that I had owners take this route twice in that last couple/few years. Good outcomes for both.

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4 hours ago, David Burgess said:

But he purchased it anyway, and then I was left holding the bag.

...of wood chips!  :)

It was before my time in the shop, but I did see the fiddle after restoration at a (big) dealer's shop in Chicago.

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14 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

...of wood chips!  :)

It was before my time in the shop, but I did see the fiddle after restoration at a (big) dealer's shop in Chicago.

I hope it didn't totally suck. There wasn't a lot to work with. Perhaps I could do better today, having had the benefit of hanging out with so many brilliant people at the Oberlin Restorations Workshops.

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