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PhilipKT

DuPre was to music as Monroe was to film

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Like Marilyn Monroe, DuPre is amazing. I don’t particularly like this piece, but even so, I can’t look away. She is amazing. Something about her transcends merely great playing on a great instrument.

We are blessed that she lived.

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There was definitely something very special about her and her playing. The sheer joy of music shines through. I love those videos with her playing chamber music with Perlman, Zuckerman, Barenboim & Metha from the early 1970s. 

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I don't know what to think.

I read the book. I was in turn, both fascinated and horrified.

At the end, I just came away sad and put-off. 

So now I don't know if that coloured my opinion of her playing, or if opinions of her playing have been elevated through marketing...

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1 hour ago, Rue said:

I don't know what to think.

I read the book. I was in turn, both fascinated and horrified.

At the end, I just came away sad and put-off. 

So now I don't know if that coloured my opinion of her playing, or if opinions of her playing have been elevated through marketing...

I read her biography, but if you’re referring to the book about her and her sister, I never read that.

I am eternally offended at her grave stone, and I think there’s a special place in hell for Daniel Barenboim

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34 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

 

I am eternally offended at her grave stone, and I think there’s a special place in hell for Daniel Barenboim

It may be a bit of showboating but I don't think it merits a place in hell.

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33 minutes ago, martin swan said:

It may be a bit of showboating but I don't think it merits a place in hell.

A gravestone is supposed to honor a person, Presumably the person in the grave. Her grave honors Barenboim, who abandoned her, who had a baby out of wedlock while she was still alive and made no secret of it.

Yes, perhaps hell is a bit extreme… But only a bit

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Well, they were married. This is a normal headstone.

20200303_190656.jpg

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13 hours ago, Rue said:

Well, they were married. This is a normal headstone.

20200303_190656.jpg

The gravestone should be about her, and ignore her adulterous husband, who abandoned her and took up with another woman and had a kid with that other woman while she was still alive.

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You do know she was adulterous as well, right?  She slept with her brother-in-law, on a regular basis.  

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58 minutes ago, Rue said:

You do know she was adulterous as well, right?  She slept with her brother-in-law, on a regular basis.  

It appears to have been a consensual ménage à trois, precipitated by difficulties in Jackie's marriage that also coincided with her initial symptoms of MS. I remember Christopher Finzi conducting Bartok's Music for S, P & C at my school. Judge not...

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It's less about being judgmental,  and more about being factual.

It's either okay to have an affair (of any kind), or not.  

And, either way, a spouse's name is commonly engraved on headstones.  So if a couple is not divorced, regardless of what went on during the marriage, the spouse remains the spouse.

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DuPre was very special.  Her Elgar is haunting.  

As to whatever may, or may not, have happened between DuPre and Barenboim, both were eccentric, both were gifted, both were thrust into the limelight at a young age, and the 60s were weird times (not good or bad, just weird).

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30 minutes ago, Rue said:

It's less about being judgmental,  and more about being factual.

It's either okay to have an affair (of any kind), or not.  

And, either way, a spouse's name is commonly engraved on headstones.  So if a couple is not divorced, regardless of what went on during the marriage, the spouse remains the spouse.

The facts are that we don't know the full facts. And I'd say that "spouse" is just a word - one of several contentious words that weren't used at my civil partnership yesterday. Thank you, thank you...

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4 minutes ago, matesic said:

... at my civil partnership yesterday. Thank you, thank you...

Congrats!!!  To both you and your partner! :D

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7 minutes ago, matesic said:

... And I'd say that "spouse" is just a word - one of several contentious words...

Going off-tangent, how is spouse contentious?  All it means, is someone you are legally married to (be it in a religious or civil ceremony), or in a common-law relationship with.  So, pretty much any 'recognized' official contract between two people (or maybe even more in multi-person family units...not sure on that...I'll check with my cohorts if I don't forget...)...

It's gender neutral.

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7 hours ago, Rue said:

You do know she was adulterous as well, right?  She slept with her brother-in-law, on a regular basis.  

So?

I despise the justification of, “well you did it too.”

So that makes it OK?

Barenboim was married to her and abandoned her to her illness. He had an open affair and at least one child and his only defense was, “I don’t think Jackie ever knew.“

In addition to being incredibly egotistical, the headstone is incorrect. She was not the beloved wife of Daniel Barenboim, because husbands do not abandon their beloved wives.

Im no Saint, but when my wife dies( if she goes first)I am not going to be so egotistical as to insist that she have a headstone which identifies her as my wife. And while she is alive, I’m certainly not going to abandon her and have a kid with some floozy, Regardless of how sick she gets.

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Sure, you're right, tit for tat isn't necessarily justifiable. She was within her rights to find herself another partner. But...her choice of partner is creepy.

She could have divorced her husband too.

I'd have to reread the book...can't remember why they didn't divorce...

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2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

So?

I despise the justification of, “well you did it too.”

So that makes it OK?

Barenboim was married to her and abandoned her to her illness. He had an open affair and at least one child and his only defense was, “I don’t think Jackie ever knew.“

In addition to being incredibly egotistical, the headstone is incorrect. She was not the beloved wife of Daniel Barenboim, because husbands do not abandon their beloved wives.

Im no Saint, but when my wife dies( if she goes first)I am not going to be so egotistical as to insist that she have a headstone which identifies her as my wife. And while she is alive, I’m certainly not going to abandon her and have a kid with some floozy, Regardless of how sick she gets.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps there was a prepaid pre-need plan involved, and, complete except for the death date, the headstone could have been sitting in a warehouse for years?  That she might have even picked the thing out?  :)

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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Has it occurred to you that perhaps there was a prepaid pre-need plan involved, and, complete except for the death date, the headstone could have been sitting in a warehouse for years?  That she might have even picked the thing out?  :)

“Occam’s razor” = the simplest solution is the most likely.

if the girl you like suddenly stops returning your phone calls, it’s POSSIBLE she has been abducted by aliens, but the most likely solution is that she just doesn’t want to talk to you anymore.

So, um, yeah...

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I think if the gravestone had just said "Jacqueline Du Pre" plus two dates, visitors would still have known this was JdP's grave.

This looks like a gratuitous posthumous act of appropriation.

Yes, in a lot of cases the name of the husband was mentioned on gravestones, but that was because wives (dead or alive) used to take a subsidiary role. This doesn't apply in this case.

To return to the original point, yes, her playing was wonderful, even though I don't think she "owns" the Elgar or anything.

I'm not too thrilled by the Marilyn Monroe equation. Part of JdP's fame may be due to the fact she often wore her hair long and free and the whole Sixties thing, but I would hope that that doesn't bowl over people any longer, decades later.

 

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3 hours ago, Herman West said:

 

I'm not too thrilled by the Marilyn Monroe equation. Part of JdP's fame may be due to the fact she often wore her hair long and free and the whole Sixties thing, but I would hope that that doesn't bowl over people any longer, decades later.

 

Your inference is incorrect. Im not making a Visual comparison. I don’t even have much visual experience with DuPre, and in the video that evokes the reaction, her hair is short. Marilyn Monroe’s appeal was indeed visual but Dupre’s was not. Dupre’s playing sound was as alluring as was Monroe’s sight.

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Nobody seems inclined to make allowances for Jackie's illness - the deadly irony of it being first manifest as numbness in her fingers and bringing her career to an end while she was still in her 20's. In an "ideal" world Barenboim would have devoted the rest of his life to caring for her, but he wasn't that kind of guy. Their relationship simply didn't survive the trauma of such radically altered circumstances. I've seen it happen more than once and you really can't blame the partner. Jackie was very much a child at heart and went running to her family for comfort. Just guessing...

22 hours ago, Rue said:

Going off-tangent, how is spouse contentious?  All it means, is someone you are legally married to (be it in a religious or civil ceremony), or in a common-law relationship with.  So, pretty much any 'recognized' official contract between two people (or maybe even more in multi-person family units...not sure on that...I'll check with my cohorts if I don't forget...)...

It's gender neutral.

It's so...conjugal!  We're just partners, same as the last 30-odd years but now half-hitched

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there's no reason for einstein to have a headstone listing all his accomplishments.  if mrs. einstein just wanted husband on it she won't go to hell for it

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Einstein had an affair...with...and then married his 1st cousin.

And...when his cousin-wife got sick...he couldn't deal with it. He went to work to avoid the issue...

I wonder what's on his first wife's gravestone? But...they were divorced...

Hm.

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