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zhiyi_zhang617

Is this violin interesting?

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42 minutes ago, deans said:

Are you saying you made it? 

Impossible! I am just an amateur violin enthusiast, knowing nothing in violin construction, other than what I learnt from this site. I acquired this violin from a well-known auction house for fine string instruments. It is a powerhouse with brilliant, projecting, yet pleasantly mature tone.

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12 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I would be inclined to wondering if it wasn't from early 9th C. France, but would need more information

It's possible, but sadly so few reference examples have survived ...

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

How did they describe it?

It has been a while now, and I try my best to recall: a Violin, c. 1800. Labeled "Johannes Antonius Marchi, Fecit Bononiae anno 1793."

It was auctioned among the early ones in the last pack, just before a few big names, something like Gaglianos, which everyone was focusing on that time.

Besides the handsome looking (you would agree if see it in person), it is felt somewhat compact in my hands.

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3 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I would be inclined to wondering if it wasn't from early 9th C. France, but would need more information

 

3 hours ago, martin swan said:

It's possible, but sadly so few reference examples have survived ...

And by the 10th C. they had stopped using swords to carve them

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2 hours ago, Dave Slight said:

 

And by the 10th C. they had stopped using swords to carve them

I think everyone accepts that by the 11th century the great secrets of violin-making were lost - the later development of the Cremonese style was surely a poor shadow or sumulacrum of the real tradition.

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3 hours ago, martin swan said:

the later development of the Cremonese style was surely a poor shadow or sumulacrum of the real tradition.

Poor shadow, indeed. The original plans for the violin remain where they were buried under Stonehenge by aliens.

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17 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

Poor shadow, indeed. The original plans for the violin remain where they were buried under Stonehenge by aliens.

Thank you all for so much fun this far; I do wish it were one of the significant pre-Cremonese.

It, unfortunately, isn't as everyone knows. Therefore, we have to go back to the reality.

Please let me direct to the question a lot of us would like to ask: What would be the probability to be French, Italian, German, and anything else for this violin? Please also provide your reasoning for the probabilities you would like to allocate to. 

My uneducated proposal, just for the kick-off of such discussion, would be 50%, 25%, 15%, and 10%.

Additional photos are attached for you to be fully informed.

Thank you!

IMG_5538.jpg

IMG_5534.jpg

IMG_5540.jpg

IMG_5529.jpg

IMG_1579.jpg

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Can't say i get much of a French vibe off this at all. OTOH I don't quite see the scroll as fitting stylistically with the body ...

Overall I simply haven't a clue. If I saw it in an auction I would just judge it on the basis of sound, and assume it had limited financial value.

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2 hours ago, martin swan said:

Can't say i get much of a French vibe off this at all. OTOH I don't quite see the scroll as fitting stylistically with the body ...

Overall I simply haven't a clue. If I saw it in an auction I would just judge it on the basis of sound, and assume it had limited financial value.

Thus, what was the auction house meant by a Violin, c. 1800. Labeled "Johannes Antonius Marchi, Fecit Bononiae anno 1793."?

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6 minutes ago, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

Thus, what was the auction house meant by a Violin, c. 1800. Labeled "Johannes Antonius Marchi, Fecit Bononiae anno 1793."?

That would seem to be a literal description of the object. It also doesn’t appear to be an attempt at any sort of attribution.

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7 minutes ago, Three13 said:

That would seem to be a literal description of the object. It also doesn’t appear to be an attempt at any sort of attribution.

Thank you; does anyone think c. 1800 and 1793 are indeed consistent? 

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On 2/8/2020 at 6:11 AM, jacobsaunders said:

I would be inclined to wondering if it wasn't from early 9th C. France, but would need more information

 

12 hours ago, martin swan said:

Can't say i get much of a French vibe off this at all. OTOH I don't quite see the scroll as fitting stylistically with the body ...

Thank you both Jacob and Martin for the opinions!

Jacob may lean towards an early French; Martin, however, would think something different.

Thus, my question would be, if not a French, why it isn't an Italian.

More specifically, it appears to be one of the non-Cremona schools, especially Milan school, of that time.

http://guadagniniviolins.com/en/instruments/index.html

or even fortunately a genuine J. A. Marchi as his violins are rare, thus would be difficult to be characterized (and generalized) based on so few existing presumable references (using the language learnt from Martin; hope that would not raise a copyright concern. :)). Moreover, those survived "references" may not always consistent with the general knowledge on this maker.(https://amati.com/en/maker/marchi-giovanni-antonio)

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9 minutes ago, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

Thus, my question would be, if not a French, why it isn't an Italian.

This would be a question you can direct to someone like Eric Blot for example, but every answer here would be more or less meaningless. Also comparisons with online listed objects for sale aren't much helpful.

I'm assuming you are inspired by the "probably Marchi" in the actual Tarisio sale (also followed by Gagliano etc.)? Though this is also a rather speculative attribution, I can't find much resemblances.

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13 hours ago, martin swan said:

OTOH I don't quite see the scroll as fitting stylistically with the body ...

Hi Martin,

The curvy narrow neck of scroll showed in one of the photos is due to the distortion because of the angle of the picture taking, in order to capture the fluting into the very end of the throat. The sides of peg box, including the upper area connected to the scroll, are indeed very straight (pls. see the photo taken from the straight front...)

IMG_1866.jpg

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22 minutes ago, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

 

or even fortunately a genuine J. A. Marchi as his violins are rare, thus would be difficult to be characterized (and generalized) based on so few existing presumable references

One of my favourite and most interesting violin books is the manuscript of 1786 by Marchi, which was discovered in the archives in Bologna by Roberto Regazzi and published (in Italian and English) in 1986. He illustrates a violin, with a label from 1768, which he thanks Charles Beare for finding for him in the appendix. You can entirely exclude even the tiniest thought that your fiddle could be a Marchi. I doubt is has ever been to Italy too, even on holiday

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15 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

One of my favourite and most interesting violin books is the manuscript of 1786 by Marchi, which was discovered in the archives in Bologna by Roberto Regazzi and published (in Italian and English) in 1986. He illustrates a violin, with a label from 1768, which he thanks Charles Beare for finding for him in the appendix. You can entirely exclude even the tiniest thought that your fiddle could be a Marchi. I doubt is has ever been to Italy too, even on holiday

https://tarisio.com/cozio-archive/property/?ID=43293

Though I completely agree with your conclusion, experience is telling us that this is useless to speak it out.

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10 minutes ago, zhiyi_zhang617 said:

Then, what is it :(? the answer to this question is my intention for this thread.

I do hope it is not from school of Walmart :(!

Thank you, everyone.

You must realise that is often much easier to establish what something isn’t that what something is. Such is life.

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