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Nestorvass

Rib Thicknessing block plane

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12 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

Hello Bill,

indeed this is a scraper plane, I never said it's a block plane. I just said that I use a blade of the block plane Stanley 9 1/2 .

Wouldn't a cabinet scraper plane also be useful to thickness down the ribs?

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14 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

Wouldn't a cabinet scraper plane also be useful to thickness down the ribs?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGfuehGcgzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3cmIIipyQ

Oops, I realized  late that you were talking about the cabinet scraper plane and not the cabinet scraper that you see in those videos....sorry

Anyway every tool that works well for you may be used, just try and see. I can only speak of what I use and that most probably was traditionally used.

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Generally a cab scraper plane is too aggressive, not sensitive. I have two, but I don't use them. They are a substitute for an intermediate plane.

I use a 102 with a toothed blade, then a large sheet steel scraper. The fancier planes are nice, and I have a couple, but I like to keep things simple, and the 102 is lighter and more mobile.

Mostly I prefer simple tools, properly prepared. There's less to go wrong and simple worked for the Amatis, etc. But people do like to spend their money. :-) I have a fleet of 102s sharpened for different tasks, including the normal blade, the toothed one in the photos (link below) , and one sharpened so the cutting angle is nearly 90 degrees that I use for planing curly ebony boards. To make the teeth you only need to cut a mm or so into the end of the blade, not cut long stripes the way the modern makers do. A mm cut should last for decades before you need to redo it, if ever. That plane in the photo made 170 violins with just those notches and is still good.

The section on ribs in my making a viola essay -- http://darntonviolins.com/making-a-viola/  (page through each section using the arrows on the photos)-- shows the tools and how to use them. When you get to the scraper pix, you'll see that a flat piece of steel can pull nice shavings IF it's well and properly sharpened.

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This is what I use for ribs,  with a toothed blade.  I cut the teeth in it with a dremel.  I also have a non toothed blade for that same plane.  

ribs.jpg

ribs 2.jpg

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If you're on a tight budget as I was.  I used a propane torch to heat an iron pipe for bending the ribs.  Don't use a copper pipe it gets way too hot and will burn the wood but iron won't do that.  

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1 hour ago, MikeC said:

If you're on a tight budget as I was.  I used a propane torch to heat an iron pipe for bending the ribs.  Don't use a copper pipe it gets way too hot and will burn the wood but iron won't do that.  

I was going to ask for tips to build a bending iron. But I had two ideas in mind somewhat similiar to that. First one is to use a heat gun in the low setting and heat up pipes like you proposed. The other was to get a steel bend it in shape and put an incadescent lamp inside with a variable resistor to control the temperature.

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41 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

I was going to ask for tips to build a bending iron. But I had two ideas in mind somewhat similiar to that. First one is to use a heat gun in the low setting and heat up pipes like you proposed. The other was to get a steel bend it in shape and put an incadescent lamp inside with a variable resistor to control the temperature.

I don't know if a heat lamp would be hot enough but you could try it.    Get the iron hot enough that if you fling a few drops of water on it the water should sizle and vaporize quickly,  it only takes a little practice to get the right feel for it.   I use an old leather belt for a bending strap as a backing for the ribs.  No need to buy a metal strap, the leather works fine.  

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5 minutes ago, MikeC said:

I don't know if a heat lamp would be hot enough but you could try it.    Get the iron hot enough that if you fling a few drops of water on it the water should sizle and vaporize quickly,  it only takes a little practice to get the right feel for it.   I use an old leather belt for a bending strap as a backing for the ribs.  No need to buy a metal strap, the leather works fine.  

I see, what would the proper diameter for the pipe be though?

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31 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

I see, what would the proper diameter for the pipe be though?

I don't think a round iron is the best shape. Most irons tend to be oval, or close to the shape of a C bout.

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Iron pipe will work. I did it with a rig similar to this one: YouTube . If you are comfortable with some basic wiring you could go the route that Tomy Hovington uses: YouTube.

I'm not saying this is the best option, but if your funds are limited it will let you dive in and start making mistakes get the job done.

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After I  bring down the overall rib stock thickness to 1.1+ mm thickness on a reciprocating spindle sander, I scrape away the sanding marks with a disposable single edge razor. The razor blade acts like a block plane with a flat sharp straight up blade. Just hold the stock up to a light to see the marks.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

 

Hello Bill,

indeed this is a scraper plane, I never said it's a block plane. I just said that I use a blade of the block plane Stanley 9 1/2 .

1093357867_3_Pialladentataperfascelamadentatarid.jpg.803d12eb7ff09e9380e6429f1d8c9f3b.jpg

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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There are other types of "scraper planes", such as this, which uses an actual scraper blade with a turned-over edge.

https://www.amazon.com/Kunz-80-Cabinet-Scraper-Plane/dp/B006L6N0LI/ref=asc_df_B006L6N0LI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309813767497&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=919567734953670798&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9016851&hvtargid=pla-568899469334&psc=1

I used one for many years,  but the downside was that it was much slower in bulk material removal (like reducing ribs blanks from 4mm thickness to 1mm) than a "real" plane.

I'm going to dig that old scraper plane out again, and see if it might be ideal for removing the last .2mm or so.

 

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Since we're sharing notes: I surface the "out" face of the ribs first - toothed blade in my adjustable mouth block plane, followed by high angle blade in the same plane to smooth out the tracks, followed by card scraper, followed by equisetum. I then raise the grain then burnish once more with equisetum. The surface at this point is almost glass smooth. 

Then I flip it over, depth drill to 1.2mm, and hog the material off with the toothed plane until the drill marks have disappeared. By this point, at the bottom of the tracks left by the teeth, the ribs are about 1mm thick. Ready to bend.

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14 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

It would be hard to go past something like that Bill. Wide enough and heavy enough. Might look at that one myself. It's a while since I planed a rib, using a Veritas block plane honed at a high angle, but I think It finished up with smooth but slightly undulating surface. It didn't concern me, but does using a scraper plane like this eliminate that sort of effect?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Mampara said:

Watch this video by Michael Fortune for an intro into hot pipe bending https://www.finewoodworking.com/2009/04/16/video-demo-hot-pipe-steam-bending-introduction

Thats a cool idea. But I don't really love the idea of putting a propane torch anywhere near wood, also the pipe that he is using seems a little too large to bend the ribs especially the ones for the c bouts

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I just clamp my rib stock to the bench with a single clamp.
I plane off the saw marks from one side, working from the centre towards the ends, then flip it over and do the other side. Works fine every time, so well that I finish the ribs straight off the plane.

Planing-viola-ribs.jpg.2bc2780704c436e931c33730498857bf.jpg

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Hello Jim,

The pistol grip makes it extremely comfortable and efficient to use.
This is quite a small plane, so having the grip makes a big difference, and it puts the pushing force in just the right place. After I tried it, I began to wonder why no one made planes like this before. It is a Lazarus plane.

It does look unusual, and everyone who has seen it wanted to try it out themselves.

 

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2 hours ago, Nestorvass said:

Thats a cool idea. But I don't really love the idea of putting a propane torch anywhere near wood, also the pipe that he is using seems a little too large to bend the ribs especially the ones for the c bouts

I used a heat gun under an aluminum block shaped like a c bout, that was mounted over a wooden riser to hold the heat gun for the first eight, and then the gun died and I bought an electric one.  It works fine. 

A pipe would work too.  

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