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Nestorvass

Rib Thicknessing block plane

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Hello, I am looking to buy a block plane to use for rib thicknessing and for other jobs like shooting the corner blocks shaping the fingerboards etc. I'd like to buy a nice veritas but they are too expensive. So I decided to go either for the stanley 102 or the stanley 18. The price difference is quite significant. The 102 costs around 12 € (plus 20 shipping) while the 18 costs 50€ (plus 20 shipping). There are a few differences though the 18 has an adjustable mouth, tilt and depth whereas the 102 is as plain as it gets. Which one should I get?

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Stanley 18.  Adjustable mouth and adjustable blade is a must to have for me and make it much more versatile. Be aware that often these "antique" planes need special blades with holes and notches for adjustment which may be different, and may be difficult to find, but I don't know the Stanley 18 specifically (seems similar to Stanley 9 1/2, however).

Stanley 102 is way simpler and do not need special blades but definitely less versatile, I have one and use it for rough work only.

Also keep in mind that these old planes will almost certainly need some tuning (cleaning, sole flattening, blade housing tuning etc.) and rarely are usable "straight from the box", and this need some experience.

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14 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

Stanley 18.  Adjustable mouth and adjustable blade is a must to have for me and make it much more versatile. Be aware that often these "antique" planes need special blades with holes and notches for adjustment which may be different, and may be difficult to find, but I don't know the Stanley 18 specifically (seems similar to Stanley 9 1/2, however).

Stanley 102 is way simpler and do not need special blades but definitely less versatile, I have one and use it for rough work only.

Also keep in mind that these old planes will almost certainly need some tuning (cleaning, sole flattening, blade housing tuning etc.) and rarely are usable "straight from the box", and this need some experience.

Thank you for your reply! I have restored planes before even ones which where completely full of rust so this is not a problem for me.

The stanley 18 that i've found is restored though looks almost like new. It is Aa bit pricey but so is the wood for the ribs if i destroy them with something cheaper.

And since I only plan to buy one block plane the 18 seems to have most of the features for an all around block plane. Still I wanted to be sure its the right choice.

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3 minutes ago, Mampara said:

Stanley 18 is a good start. Read more about its history here http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan3.htm

Patrick's blood and gore is a treasure trove of information dealing with planes! Get a toothed blade for it if possible, it will let you destroy less ribs than without it. 

Wow thats a nice website. Thank you, I doubt i can find a toothed blade for it. Actually any blade in general. They are a bit rare. I don't know if a modern blade fits. If it does i could use a small diamond triangular file to cut teeth into it. 

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If I could not afford a Veritas or Lie Nielsen block plane for rib thicknessing I would make a wooden one. All you need is some suitable hardwood. If you use a cross pin and wedge arrangement the blade can be a plain piece of flat steel. If you design the plane around a 40 mm blade it will be big and heavy enough for the job. It would need to be a bevel down design with the blade set at about 45 degrees. I'm able to make both slotted and plain blades to suit,  but obviously you would have to be able to make the plane.

 

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1 hour ago, Nestorvass said:

The stanley 18 that i've found is restored though looks almost like new. It is Aa bit pricey but so is the wood for the ribs if i destroy them with something cheaper.

I make this for ribs thicknessing, very cheap, you have to buy the toothed blade only (40 mm wide).:)

If instead you like to use a block plane for planing ribs be sure it is perfectly tuned and super-super-super sharp, otherwise with highly flamed wood it's a disaster;)

105810964_Pialladentataperfasce.jpg.61d1b01f73dd30e7b04fbeef13abfab9.jpg

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1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

I make this for ribs thicknessing, very cheap, you have to buy the toothed blade only (40 mm wide).:)

If instead you like to use a block plane for planing ribs be sure it is perfectly tuned and super-super-super sharp, otherwise with highly flamed wood it's a disaster;)

Thank you Mr. Sora, I've seen your youtube videos. They have been extremely helpful for me since I am self taught. I am very greatful that you have taken the time to share your knowledge with us.

 I've seen you using this plane in the rib thicknessing video. Its very nice. However since I don't have a block plane only a no. 5, a cheap no.4 and a few finger planes I figured I need to buy a block plane. Not just for thicknessing the ribs but for other jobs such as squaring the blocks, shaping the fingerboard etc.

As for the sharpness part I am least worried about that. I am used to sharpen all my tools to a point where they split the end of a hair.

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2 minutes ago, Urban Luthier said:

The high angled version of the Veritas standard block plane is a good investment and will last a life time. Very easy to setup and fine tune. The blade and sole come dead flat. The plane has real heft to it

https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/block/47881-veritas-standard-and-low-angle-block-planes 

I know they are but I am a student in university so no job and thus I can't afford them. So i have to stick with one of these two unfortunately

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1 hour ago, Davide Sora said:

I make this for ribs thicknessing, very cheap, you have to buy the toothed blade only (40 mm wide).:)

If instead you like to use a block plane for planing ribs be sure it is perfectly tuned and super-super-super sharp, otherwise with highly flamed wood it's a disaster;)

105810964_Pialladentataperfasce.jpg.61d1b01f73dd30e7b04fbeef13abfab9.jpg

Agreed. A high-angle block plane requires a lot more effort to push, and may tear off the ends during planing, but is almost foolproof when it comes to tearing out the flames, on the rest of the rib.

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1 minute ago, David Burgess said:

Agreed. A high-angle block plane requires a lot more effort to push, and may tear off the ends during planing, but is almost foolproof when it comes to tearing out the flames, on the rest of the rib.

So is a low angle plane better? I am asking because i also had the vintage stanley 60 1/2 in mind.

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Davide, what is the size of the plane and blade on your pic? Is it 90 degrees? I've got one old plane iron (app. 4 cm wide) that I could find use for... Thanks.

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38 minutes ago, HoGo said:

Davide, what is the size of the plane and blade on your pic? Is it 90 degrees? I've got one old plane iron (app. 4 cm wide) that I could find use for... Thanks.

Yes, 4 cm width and set at 90°. But seen the bevel at 25° if you use it backwards the angle becomes 65°. One of the advantages of this type of plane is that it can be used in both directions, very handy. Probably the blade can be set differently from 90° in order to have the same cutting angle in both directions, but seems useless and more complicated to make it. Another big advantage it's that you should almost never re-sharpen it, I only did it once six years ago when I built the plane.B)

My toothed blade is a replacement blade for Stanley 9 1/2.

1269704802_2_Pialladentataperfasce.thumb.jpg.2eeb14b16c1c5676be06c20abfa6e6dd.jpg

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3 hours ago, Nestorvass said:

I know they are but I am a student in university so no job and thus I can't afford them. So i have to stick with one of these two unfortunately

I do understand. I had a heck of a time with cashflow when I was a student. That said one can easily put in another 100 dollars setting up a vintage plane if it needs work and the blade needed replacing. A veritas or Lie Nielsen block plane will last a lifetime (the low angled version with a regular blade and toothing blade) One can always bevel the blade for a steeper angle if needed.

 

 

 

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That depends on the person I guess, I'd rather spend those 100 dollars on a few files or something else that i actually need than to a plane this premium. I am sure i can get the job done with something cheaper, I doubt Stradivari and all the rest of the great luthiers had quality planes like this back in the day, but somehow they did make great violins anyway. I am sure the veritas planes are great but without a job it takes me a lot of time to gather 100$.

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9 hours ago, Nestorvass said:

Wow thats a nice website. Thank you, I doubt i can find a toothed blade for it. Actually any blade in general. They are a bit rare. I don't know if a modern blade fits. If it does i could use a small diamond triangular file to cut teeth into it. 

If you do make your own toothed blade straight slots are better that triangular and random spacing is better than regular because it won't run in it's own tracks.

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Davide, your plane has a very appealing design.  Simple and well executed.

Is there a problem with the shavings catching in front of the blade?  Thus, you have to stop and dig them out.  I have this problem on some of my small, hand-made planes for bows.

The only U.S. source I can find for planes for bows are those of Lynn Hannings--I think she must have these made for her business.  The design allows the shavings to be easily removed--I think this is an important influence in the design of these high angle (scraper) planes.

St James Bay does not seem to be making bow-making planes at this time.

regards

Mike D

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2 hours ago, Mike_Danielson said:

Davide, your plane has a very appealing design.  Simple and well executed.

Is there a problem with the shavings catching in front of the blade?  Thus, you have to stop and dig them out.  I have this problem on some of my small, hand-made planes for bows.

The only U.S. source I can find for planes for bows are those of Lynn Hannings--I think she must have these made for her business.  The design allows the shavings to be easily removed--I think this is an important influence in the design of these high angle (scraper) planes.

St James Bay does not seem to be making bow-making planes at this time.

regards

Mike D

A bit....:rolleyes:But this plane does not make shavings but rather crumbs, and removing them every now and then is not so problematic, there is not the problem as with block planes with a very closed mouth where the chip gets stuck and the plane becomes unusable. Anyway thanks for the information, I'll go to see how Lynn Hannings makes his planes, do you have a link?

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12 hours ago, Davide Sora said:

Yes, 4 cm width and set at 90°. But seen the bevel at 25° if you use it backwards the angle becomes 65°. One of the advantages of this type of plane is that it can be used in both directions, very handy. Probably the blade can be set differently from 90° in order to have the same cutting angle in both directions, but seems useless and more complicated to make it. Another big advantage it's that you should almost never re-sharpen it, I only did it once six years ago when I built the plane.B)

My toothed blade is a replacement blade for Stanley 9 1/2.

1269704802_2_Pialladentataperfasce.thumb.jpg.2eeb14b16c1c5676be06c20abfa6e6dd.jpg

I don't think that falls into the category of  high angle block plane; it's more of a scraper plane. For ribs, that's all I use is a scraper plane.

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I was just wondering if anyone here has experimented with Japanese pull planes for ribs? I just brought back some from a recent trip, and I spent a day destroying some figured rib stock trying to get the blade set and my technique to work. In the end I finally started getting some good results with the blade barely "feelable" past the sole, and a slightly skewed, gentle pull stroke.  

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There are certain fundamentals about planes and how they work, or don't in certain situations.

Some bevel-up block planes in the past minimised tearout by having very narrow blade openings in their sole. Some modern bevel-up block planes have adjustable blade openings which may help avoid some tearout, but with a honed angle of say 25 deg. plus 12 deg. blade angle adding up to 37 deg. tearout is guaranteed to happen when planing ribs. This can be avoided by honing the blade at a much higher angle, at least 30 deg. plus, so that the cutting angle of the blade is at least 42 deg. I have used a higher angle (16 deg.) blade bed  Veritas block plane honed at about 27 deg. without any trouble when planing ribs. Slotted blades will also cause tearout if the cutting angle is too low.

Well made wooden planes with a 45 deg. blade ramp will perform just as well as any modern low angle block plane when reducing ribs to thickness, and are probably much more comfortable to use.

Planing the end grain of blocks with a low angle block plane, especially with ribs glued on, will not have a happy ending unless the blocks are of a very low density and the blade is honed well below an angle of 25 deg. I've found this operation is best done on a stone slab with coarse pumice grit. Slow, but accurate.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Bill Yacey said:

I don't think that falls into the category of  high angle block plane; it's more of a scraper plane. For ribs, that's all I use is a scraper plane.

Hello Bill,

indeed this is a scraper plane, I never said it's a block plane. I just said that I use a blade of the block plane Stanley 9 1/2 .

1093357867_3_Pialladentataperfascelamadentatarid.jpg.803d12eb7ff09e9380e6429f1d8c9f3b.jpg

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