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Nestorvass

Violin Templates Online

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5 minutes ago, MikeC said:

David seemed uncharacteristically harsh, did his signon get hijacked by a troll? Going through andropause?  Or is he just having difficulty finding sheep?    :D

I was going to suggest makingtheviolin.com but someone beat me to it.

Also watch Davide Sora's youtube videos,  they are priceless!  

Worry not, I didn't mind what he said. If he wanted to help he would have replied to my question. But people do get bored sometimes and need to find things to do to stop their boredom. So its fine I guess :P

I have been learning from both this website and Mr. Sora's videos. They really are a treasure in the community (plus they are free). But thank you for taking the time to reply to me :)

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19 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

 1.  Whether I am a new timer or not is non important. 

2.  My woodworking skills are pretty good if I may say so myself.

3.  Now all I needed is the patterns.

4.  My ability of being able to use the patterns and actually end up with a good copy or a bad one is irrelevant to my question.

5.  The question was simple if there are patterns for Titian online. End of story.

1.  Agreed - the minor issue is that there are not many, if any, 22 year old that can successfully do what you want to do.

2.  Guitar is easier than a making a violin that works.  Been there and done that. 

3.  If you are serious, you could print a copy of the P mold glue or mark it onto a 18 mm piece of plank big enough for a mold, cut it out and be ready for the next step - whichever next step you think that may be.

4.  You could be an exception but we've all been where you're at now - don't be surprised if your first attempt isn't even worthy of a fire pit heating element,  assuming you venture forth with this you will still be proud of the effort or should be.  By the sounds of it so far it may be a year from now until you get started.

5.  Start with a P mold if you want {titian}.  I recommend a longer Strad mold as compared to the P mold, if there's one available.  Why you may ask?  Chances are you will leave too much unneeded wood in your belly and back plate work.  A longer, maybe slightly wider plan may help you some tonewise, maybe give you a little confidence for later forays.

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39 minutes ago, MikeC said:

David seemed uncharacteristically harsh, did his signon get hijacked by a troll? Going through andropause?

When we get to the age where we need to get up several times per night to pee, and in a semi-sleep state fall behind the toilet and get stuck there for two hours, we can be a bit grumpy the next morning, :lol:

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14 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

Upon a quick look-through, that website (http://www.makingtheviolin.com) appears to be be pretty good.
Do you know whose website this is?

I've been avare of the site from it's beginning when only few pages were created and I believe someone from Czech Republic was involved, I can't recall the name... but I may be wrong. Now it seems to be completely anonymous.

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So if you sort of pay heed to what I wrote earlier Nestorvass then here are a few resizing numbers you can use in case the print pages for the mold need to be resized/adjusted for the printer you'll be using.  Just simply use a plastic mm rule and measure on the p.c. screen.

These are half mold with dimensions:  upper bout 80 - 81 mm , narrowest part of c bout 52 - 54 mm and lower bout 100 - 102 mm.  For the length of mold 349 - 351 mm at the most.  These are just my suggestions.

Using these figures x 2  overall widths and length for the entire mold will be 160 - 162 mm upper, 104 - 108 mm c bout, 200 -204 mm lower bout and try not to go past 351 mm in length. 

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It's kinda like in old kung-fu movies... novice comes to sensei and wants to know all the secrets right at the spot. The wisdom of the sensei is often in what he doesn't say. I'm a teacher and I know the things that are given to students without their active involvments will not last or become part of their knowledge.

56 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

As for the google part I can assure you that I have been looking for weeks about templates patterns etc before I decided to post this on the forum. I have found a few online but none for the violin that I want to build, the "Titian". Whether I am a new timer or not is non important. 

My woodworking skills are pretty good if I may say so myself. Now all I needed is the patterns. My ability of being able to use the patterns and actually end up with a good copy or a bad one is irrelevant to my question. The question was simple if there are patterns for Titian online. End of story.

Perhaps if you started with this you could get more direct answers. In the past I even mailed drawings for free to poor beginner across half of globe (EU to India) only to find the guy quit it soon when he realized complexity of the skill just to get the instrument done. You seem to be enthusiastic enough, but the road is rough. Guitar is simple compared to violin.

 

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3 hours ago, Delabo said:

I have never made a violin and probably never will, but this approach makes sense to me and might be an explanation for the  dorsel pin hole seen in some cremonese violins.

Do you use a hanging chain to trace a catenary curve ?

Drill a hole almost through as a depth gauge  before hollowing out ?

Coming up with my own ideas I do use a chain, but not just straight arches end to end. I did drill holes a couple of times; now I just measure with a caliper using a scale.  I thought of doing more of a step by step on my makers page on the contemporary makers forum.  Don't know what model I'd do.  I'll ask there.  Maybe someone would like to see one.  

There are really no shortcuts.  You just have to do and learn.

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14 minutes ago, HoGo said:

I've been avare of the site from it's beginning when only few pages were created and I believe someone from Czech Republic was involved, I can't recall the name... but I may be wrong. Now it seems to be completely anonymous.

It would be nice to know who to attribute it to, and give them credit. But I also understand if the safest thing to do in the internet age is to remain anonymous.

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6 minutes ago, HoGo said:

It's kinda like in old kung-fu movies... novice comes to sensei and wants to know all the secrets right at the spot. The wisdom of the sensei is often in what he doesn't say. I'm a teacher and I know the things that are given to students without their active involvments will not last or become part of their knowledge.

Perhaps if you started with this you could get more direct answers. In the past I even mailed drawings for free to poor beginner across half of globe (EU to India) only to find the guy quit it soon when he realized complexity of the skill just to get the instrument done. You seem to be enthusiastic enough, but the road is rough. Guitar is simple compared to violin.

 

I now the road is rough and believe me I am a patient man. I once started drawing a michelangelo's david with dots. Single dots and very tiny ones it took me hours every day and weeks. I wanted to stop but I couldn't because my mind set is that if you start something you have to do it perfectly and to complete it no matter what it takes. I am not looking for shortcuts i am looking for something to begin with. A pattern or a template isn't a shortcut, its necessity to build a violin. As for why i didn't mention that I have woodworking experience and that i've build a guitar, its because i don't believe that have to give a resume, to ask a question.

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9 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

It would be nice to know who to attribute it to, and give them credit. But I also understand if the safest thing to do in the internet age is to remain anonymous.

I believe that the website is created by Czech violin maker Vojtěch Blahout. According to Google search he is also MN member.

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29 minutes ago, HoGo said:

It's kinda like in old kung-fu movies... novice comes to sensei and wants to know all the secrets right at the spot. The wisdom of the sensei is often in what he doesn't say. I'm a teacher and I know the things that are given to students without their active involvments will not last or become part of their knowledge.

Perhaps if you started with this you could get more direct answers. In the past I even mailed drawings for free to poor beginner across half of globe (EU to India) only to find the guy quit it soon when he realized complexity of the skill just to get the instrument done.

I think it's good to introduce the complexities and challenges. Being a professional maker has little to do with sitting on a mountaintop and sniffing flowers.

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22 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

it took me hours every day and weeks. I wanted to stop but I couldn't because 

That reminds me of the time when I was six years old and got caught playing with matches.  Punishment was to write "I will not play with matches" 5000 times.  I couldn't even count to 100 at the time.  Still better than a spanking.   

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28 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I think it's good to introduce the complexities and challenges. Being a professional maker has little to do with sitting on a mountaintop and sniffing flowers.

As if making a violin isn't already challenging enough... Do I need to get challenged by the members of this forum as well? 

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2 hours ago, Nestorvass said:

My woodworking skills are pretty good if I may say so myself. Now all I needed is the patterns. My ability of being able to use the patterns and actually end up with a good copy or a bad one is irrelevant to my question. The question was simple if there are patterns for Titian online. End of story.

If you are interested in making a copy of the Titian you have to buy the poster, it is the only detailed resource available and all in all cheap. Then you will realize that making copies starting from photographs is not realistically possible, so the advice is to consider that you are simply making a violin on the P form like the many others Stradivari made on this form, so starting directly from the drawings of this form available for free on this site is a good starting point and the cheapest option.

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3 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

Then you will realize that making copies starting from photographs is not realistically possible.....

??

Come on, Davide, of course it is.

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2 minutes ago, Davide Sora said:

If you are interested in making a copy of the Titian you have to buy the poster, it is the only detailed resource available and all in all cheap. Then you will realize that making copies starting from photographs is not realistically possible, so the advice is to consider that you are simply making a violin on the P form like the many others Stradivari made on this form, so starting directly from the drawings of this form available for free on this site is a good starting point and the cheaper option.

I did consider this option as well. My only concern is that I don't know where to find arching patterns, patterns for the neck that will work well on a violin that is built on this form. The reason why I chose Titian is not to much because I want the Titian but because this poster contains arching templates thickness measurements, templates for the neck.

How am I going to figure out all those, plate thickness, arching templates, neck pattern scroll patern, etc if I only have a pattern of the form?

 

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1 minute ago, Nestorvass said:

I did consider this option as well. My only concern is that I don't know where to find arching patterns, patterns for the neck that will work well on a violin that is built on this form. The reason why I chose Titian is not to much because I want the Titian but because this poster contains arching templates thickness measurements, templates for the neck.

How am I going to figure out all those, plate thickness, arching templates, neck pattern scroll patern, etc if I only have a pattern of the form?

 

The problem with slavishly copying the arching and thicknesses from the Titian or another violin is that your wood is not going to have the same properties as Strad's wood for the Titian. It's better if you can understand the rules he used to develop the arch and then apply those rules to the wood you possess. If making great violins was nothing more than copying the exact shapes existing cremonese masterpieces, we could have all left this work to the machines long ago.

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Just now, JacksonMaberry said:

The problem with slavishly copying the arching and thicknesses from the Titian or another violin is that your wood is not going to have the same properties as Strad's wood for the Titian. It's better if you can understand the rules he used to develop the arch and then apply those rules to the wood you possess. If making great violins was nothing more than copying the exact shapes existing cremonese masterpieces, we could have all left this work to the machines long ago.

I understand but I can't figure this out on my own since I don't have any formal training. Like I said its my first violin. My mindset was that I am going to copy the arching, measurements and everything since its my first violin and then as I gain experience from making the first I might be able to alter some of the parameters to my own liking. For now I am completely inexperienced so I doubt I will come close to anything good if I don't follow a "recipe" so to speak.

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3 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

I understand but I can't figure this out on my own since I don't have any formal training. Like I said its my first violin. My mindset was that I am going to copy the arching, measurements and everything since its my first violin and then as I gain experience from making the first I might be able to alter some of the parameters to my own liking. For now I am completely inexperienced so I doubt I will come close to anything good if I don't follow a "recipe" so to speak.

that sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan, but I thought you said you didn't want to buy the poster?

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No I said that I wanted to avoid buying the poster if there is  website that has the templates on the poster already available for free. In case there wasn't such website (turns out that there probably isnt) then I'd have to buy the poster.

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6 minutes ago, Nestorvass said:

I understand but I can't figure this out on my own since I don't have any formal training. Like I said its my first violin. My mindset was that I am going to copy the arching, measurements and everything since its my first violin and then as I gain experience from making the first I might be able to alter some of the parameters to my own liking. For now I am completely inexperienced so I doubt I will come close to anything good if I don't follow a "recipe" so to speak.

Of course, that seems reasonable. 

When you get a minute, read this: http://davidofsantabarbara.blogspot.com/2016/06/a-first-draft-imagining-how-to-make.html?m=1

If it interests you, read the rest of the blog. I don't do everything exactly as David describes, but several of his ideas have absolutely revolutionized the way I work. 

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Just now, Nestorvass said:

No I said that I wanted to avoid buying the poster if there is  website that has the templates on the poster already available for free. In case there wasn't such website (turns out that there probably isnt) then I'd have to buy the poster.

Well there ya go, then. :)

There's a John Dilworth "trade secrets" article that'll take you through the process of generating outline templates and mould from the poster. Get cracking on that and the rib structure and report back!

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1 minute ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Of course, that seems reasonable. 

When you get a minute, read this: http://davidofsantabarbara.blogspot.com/2016/06/a-first-draft-imagining-how-to-make.html?m=1

If it interests you, read the rest of the blog. I don't do everything exactly as David describes, but several of his ideas have absolutely revolutionized the way I work. 

Wow that looks very useful I'll definetely read all of it, any knowledge available online is a treasure for me. Thank you for posting this :D

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19 minutes ago, JohnCockburn said:

??

Come on, Davide, of course it is.

:)

You know, i don't know anything about how to make a copy, in fact I'm allergic to them....

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6 minutes ago, JohnCockburn said:

Well there ya go, then. :)

There's a John Dilworth "trade secrets" article that'll take you through the process of generating outline templates and mould from the poster. Get cracking on that and the rib structure and report back!

I will definetely look into it, thank you!

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