Authentic Leandro Bisiach violin?

[hannaz]

Hello,

Is the violin from the photos fake or could it be an authentic Leandro Bisiach violin? I’ve tried to compare it to instruments on tarisio but it’s hard to do when you don’t know what to look for.

Edited January 26, 2020 by hannaz

[Dwight Brown]

It is at least interesting.

DLB

[Three13]

I don't see anything in these pictures that resembles a Bisiach. 

[PhilipKT]

Nice looking violin, whatever it is

[mysticpaw]

What's with all the varnish chipping on the bass side of the tailpiece ? …  never seen so much before on a not too old violin

[Three13]

It looks Albani-influenced to me. Better pictures would help.

[Wood Butcher]

Not a Bisiach.

[hannaz]

Thank you, everyone, it's really interesting. I'm curious, what is the giveaway that it's not a Bisiach or what makes it interesting? If it's not something that you'd like to share on a public forum perhaps you could send a dm?

[Nicolas Temino]

Not a L. Bisiach at all. That edgework does not fit (but maybe the angle of the pics).

But an interesting one indeed.

[Porteroso]

6 hours ago, hannaz said:

Thank you, everyone, it's really interesting. I'm curious, what is the giveaway that it's not a Bisiach or what makes it interesting? If it's not something that you'd like to share on a public forum perhaps you could send a dm?

There is a stickied thread on this forum detailing what pictures are needed for a decent internet evaluation. If you will take the pictures, many members here love to work through what a violin like this may be. 

[hannaz]

3 minutes ago, Porteroso said:

There is a stickied thread on this forum detailing what pictures are needed for a decent internet evaluation. If you will take the pictures, many members here love to work through what a violin like this may be. 

I saw that thread, but the photos are from a craigslist-type website where it's listed as a Bisiach. I really like the look of this violin but wanted to at least partially verify it before I travel to try it. There were two more photos that I attach now

[Wood Butcher]

“Interesting” is used to describe things when people don’t know what they are.
 

[Nicolas Temino]

2 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

“Interesting” is used to describe things when people don’t know what they are.
 

Or when a thing does not look like the standard Markie thing.

[Wood Butcher]

1 hour ago, Nicolas Temino said:

Or when a thing does not look like the standard Markie thing.

Even when that is exactly what it is.

[Blank face]

The first point to exclude Bisiach is the built on the back construction with pinched rib joints, and all other features defining it as a "Standard Markie", i. e. a product of the Markneukirchen/Schönbach cottage industry roughly around 1900. The only thing being a bit different is the antiquing with acid, leading to the somehow clowdy appearance of the varnish in the lower bouts, a bit like the French Caussin school, that's all.

[martin swan]

Huge and messy button repair ...

Agree with Blank Face that this is German making a bit of an effort.

[hannaz]

I’m impressed how knowledgeable people here are. And willing to share their knowledge too. Are there books or websites with pictures showing how, for example, different rib joints look?

[Blank face]

5 hours ago, hannaz said:

I saw that thread, but the photos are from a craigslist-type website where it's listed as a Bisiach. I really like the look of this violin but wanted to at least partially verify it before I travel to try it. There were two more photos that I attach now

In this photos it looks a bit more French/Caussin alike, but the scroll and the ff with wide notches seem to point to Markneukirchen/Schönbach. But however it won't make much of a difference, and definitely no Bisiach.

[Blank face]

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

Huge and messy button repair ...

I can't see this repair, in fact can't see much of the button at all?

If the condition is good, not a bad violin, but the price should be accordingly to a "not Bisiach".

[martin swan]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

I can't see this repair, in fact can't see much of the button at all?

 

Huge area of new varnish travelling a third of the way down the back from the button ...

[Wood Butcher]

As gruesome and strange as that area looks, it could be part of the brutal antiquing.

[Violadamore]

6 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

“Interesting” is used to describe things when people don’t know what they are.
 

Not always.  Sometimes it's simply more diplomatic than giving an accurate description. 

[Al Cramer]

Could someone please comment on the wood? I'm really intrigued by the back, because the upper region looks flamed but the lower looks almost quilted. Also the wide grain of the table is very cool. People say this is Markneukirchen/Schönbach ca. 1900: I didn't realize that those makers used such interesting wood!

[Bruce Carlson]

The label is identical to the reproduction in the René Vannes - Dictionnaire Universel des Luthiers (n. 156 in the Fac-Similés des Etiquettes). Someone showed some creativity by transforming 1896 into 1899. The rest is totally identical.

[Wood Butcher]

5 hours ago, Al Cramer said:

Could someone please comment on the wood? I'm really intrigued by the back, because the upper region looks flamed but the lower looks almost quilted. Also the wide grain of the table is very cool. People say this is Markneukirchen/Schönbach ca. 1900: I didn't realize that those makers used such interesting wood!

The back is maple, which is slab cut. The figure is fairly typical for a slab back, nothing unusual. Again, the spruce is nothing unexpected either.

If you get a chance to see more violins from this area, you will come to realise it is typical.