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David Burgess

My latest "over-my-main-workbench" lighting solution.

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My latest "over-my-main-workbench" lighting solution.

I'm going to describe the artistic inspiration as "early industrial chic". ;)

1519414670_newdesklighting.jpg.ad5a3992772d9d8a37f07faf4d0f0dc1.jpg

 

For those who don't already know, this is not a reference to "chicks", but a reference to something which is "elegantly and stylishly fashionable". So please do not go off into uninformed diatribes about sexist stuff. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Michael Darnton said:

What kind of bulbs are you using?

I arrived at this mess after my old four-foot fluorescent fixture started tripping the ground fault interrupter every time I turned it on. The first thing I tried was moving a fluorescent fixture from another bench, but that older fixture didn't work with my newer 34 watt "high-color-rendering" fluorescent bulbs.

Then I spent about two full days looking at replacement fluorescent -type fixtures, trying to sort out which would or would not work with the various sorts of bulbs, including LED's,  also looking at the Color Rendering Index of the various bulbs. It was a hair-raising experience (aside from by balding spot). :lol:

The bulbs are these:

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/211441/GE-27978-SP.html

They are GE LED replacements for 60 watt incandescent bulbs, with a normal screw-in base, a claimed color rendering index of 90+, and only costing about a buck each. Current draw is 10.5 watts per bulb. They aren't quite as flicker-free as the one-buck Ikea bulbs, but much better in that regard than many other fluorescent and LED bulbs.

The fixtures are the clamp-on hardware store variety, around 8 bucks each. They can easily be moved around or angled if needed, but I don't expect that to be necessary.

https://www.acehardware.com/departments/lighting-and-electrical/work-and-shop-lights/portable-lights/3810645?x429=true&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4ris89Cf5wIVVP_jBx0p7wyBEAkYCSABEgJnyvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

So including the 3-way adapter to plug the three fixtures into the end of a single extension cord, and the wooden board on the top I bought to clamp the fixtures to, I'm into it for about a total of 32 bucks (not counting my time). B)

 

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Do you not find that many vm jobs require a light source that casts a shadow? I do, and I expect if you made me lighting like that, I would finish up switching it off most of the time.

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3 hours ago, David Burgess said:

So please do not go off into uninformed diatribes about sexist stuff. 

Made me laff!

But the uninformed diatribes make me laff too.

( No, kids, the pilgrims can’t be used as an example of illegal immigration...)

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Did you keep the four foot fluorescent fixture? I ask because I have a very old eight foot fluorescent fixture that needed replacement tubes. And it was also of an age such that it had an old magnetic ballast, the type that has PCB's in it, and the ballast was leaking. Something surely needed to be done. The solution turned out to be rather elegant. I replaced the fluorescent tubes with LED tubes made to install in the same holders (they're called tombstones, curiously enough). And because the LED tubes don't require a ballast, I was able to simply cut it out of the circuit, join the cut wires directly, and remove that dangerous ballast for haz-mat disposal. The result is so much better than it was before. 6500 degree color temperature - like daylight! No strobe effect like the fluorescents. Claimed 50,000 hour tube life. Instant starting. No humming. The LED tubes are said to use about 30% as much energy as the fluorescent tubes. No more mercury around the shop. I just did this a few days ago, and I couldn't be happier with the outcome. It was a win, win, win solution. The LED tubes are available in pretty much every size that fluorescents are/were.

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7 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

No, kids, the pilgrims can’t be used as an example of illegal immigration...)

Insofar as there weren't "laws" in North America, in the sense that Western society regards them, this is true. Regardless, this is an unfortunately ethnocentric argument. 

But, I digress. Phillip, if you wish to have a civil and completely unheated discussion about this, you are welcome to message me for my number.

Edited by JacksonMaberry

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14 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Do you not find that many vm jobs require a light source that casts a shadow? I do, and I expect if you made me lighting like that, I would finish up switching it off most of the time.

I do too, and for that, I use the black task lamp you see in the photo. When doing archings, I use 1 task lamp, with no other light in the room.

13 hours ago, MarkBouquet said:

Did you keep the four foot fluorescent fixture?

I didn't. It was an electronic ballast type, but I couldn't figure out if the ground fault was in the ballast, the on/off switch, or in the socket ends. The bigger issue though was that the LED replacement tubes with a high color rendering index tended to be rather expensive, and hardly any furnished  information on their flicker index. I would have needed to purchase them to see how they did. The GE bulb I used didn't provide flicker information either, but the bulb was easily available and only cost me two bucks to try.

("Flicker": LED's pass current in only one direction and turn on and off almost instantly, so when powered by alternating current, they will emit no light half the time, turning on and off 60 times per second. Many, but not all  bulbs have electronics to reduce or nearly eliminate this. Incandescent bulbs, on the other hand, emit light during both phases of the current, and the heated filament producing the light has enough thermal inertia that it doesn't have enough time to change temperature much during the power cycle, so the light is rather constant.)

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7 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

Insofar as there weren't "laws" in North America, in the sense that Western society regards them, this is true. Regardless, this is an unfortunately ethnocentric argument. 

But, I digress. Phillip, if you wish to have a civil and completely unheated discussion about this, you are welcome to message me for my number.

I’m not sure what you meant, but the Mayflower is so obviously irrelevant to a discussion about current immigration, it is counterproductive to even mention it.

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I have my 60" tablesaw over in my dad's shop, as he has a lot more room there when cutting up sheet plywood for cabinets etc.

I had suspended  two 4 foot 2 tube fluorescent  fixtures end to end, about seven feet above the saw table, as the shop has a 16 foot ceiling; this lit up the saw rather well. A few years ago, my dad decided to "revamp" the lighting in the shop; he had a bunch of incandescent sockets, so he removed the tubes and ballasts from all the fluorescents, and installed the incandescent sockets into the old fluorescent housings, spaced a foot apart and then put LED bulbs into the sockets.

Now, the first thing I noticed was eight 100W equivalent LED bulbs wasn't as bright as four fluorescent 40W tubes, but more importantly is the multiple shadows created by multiple light sources. It seems the LEDs don't diffuse the light as well as the fluorescent tubes. This is something of an annoyance when making careful measurements and marking for cuts.

I think I'll switch these over to the LED tubes that can be installed into existing 4 tube fixtures and see if they are any better.

How do you find your new LED lighting with respect to shadows?

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21 hours ago, David Burgess said:

My latest "over-my-main-workbench" lighting solution.

I'm going to describe the artistic inspiration as "early industrial chic". ;)

As long as the new set up doesn't promote later health concerns it should work well.  I'm always moving mine around and found it is better using rough service bulbs from the auto parts store.

Maybe Melvin or Jeffrey have left over brick wallpaper rolls use could use - then you could call it just "early industrial"

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We need a show us your “workbench” thread. David do you feel that the magnetic tool holders magnetize your  gouges, chisels, etc.? I notice you are sticking them on the handles and not the tool.

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Micro fracture chips will stick to a magnetized edge and further hasten the destruction of a fine edge during use.

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1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

I have my 60" tablesaw over in my dad's shop, as he has a lot more room there when cutting up sheet plywood for cabinets etc.

I had suspended  two 4 foot 2 tube fluorescent  fixtures end to end, about seven feet above the saw table, as the shop has a 16 foot ceiling; this lit up the saw rather well. A few years ago, my dad decided to "revamp" the lighting in the shop; he had a bunch of incandescent sockets, so he removed the tubes and ballasts from all the fluorescents, and installed the incandescent sockets into the old fluorescent housings, spaced a foot apart and then put LED bulbs into the sockets.

Now, the first thing I noticed was eight 100W equivalent LED bulbs wasn't as bright as four fluorescent 40W tubes, but more importantly is the multiple shadows created by multiple light sources. It seems the LEDs don't diffuse the light as well as the fluorescent tubes. This is something of an annoyance when making careful measurements and marking for cuts.

I think I'll switch these over to the LED tubes that can be installed into existing 4 tube fixtures and see if they are any better.

 

Thanks, Bill. I'd been considering installing screw-in bases is my remaining fluorescent recessed ceiling light fixtures (with the old-style magnetic ballasts) which aren't as efficient and strobe badly. Do you think the light output was actually less, or was the "color temperature" just different, giving the impression of less light?

By the way, I ran across these during my search, and have now installed them in my two screw-in garage ceiling sockets. Super "white" light which is somewhat aimable. and much more light than I have ever had in the garage before, except when I used several 600 watt halogen lamps. These are claimed to be 60 watts each. The super-white light probably doesn't give great color rendition, but since I don't varnish or varnish-retouch in the garage, it probably doesn't matter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MRDXQC7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(sorry, it took me a while to figure out how to get the link to work)

 

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1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

Now, the first thing I noticed was eight 100W equivalent LED bulbs wasn't as bright as four fluorescent 40W tubes, but more importantly is the multiple shadows created by multiple light sources. It seems the LEDs don't diffuse the light as well as the fluorescent tubes. This is something of an annoyance when making careful measurements and marking for cuts.

I think I'll switch these over to the LED tubes that can be installed into existing 4 tube fixtures and see if they are any better.

How do you find your new LED lighting with respect to shadows?

I don't find shadows to be problematic, perhaps because the eight foot fixture has light coming from a long continuous strip. Also, you can get these LED tubes with either clear plastic coverings or translucent coverings which diffuse the light somewhat. I chose translucent, and I think it was the right choice for my application.

The light quality is superb for me. I can judge the condition of a cutting edge, the set of a plane blade, or the markings on a ruler with a clarity that my old fluorescent tubes simply wouldn't allow.

Finally, here's a photo of my fixture, and it must be admitted that the reflector really doesn't contribute anything to the LED output because, unlike fluorescent tubes which cast light in all directions, these LED tubes have a 120 degree output and all the light is directed down. I've had this fixture for about 35 years now, and it was a few decades old when I got it. The steel is heavy gage like they don't use anymore, and it just has an industrial retro (made in USA) charm that I wanted to keep alive.

IMG_1255.JPG

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50 minutes ago, scordatura said:

We need a show us your “workbench” thread. David do you feel that the magnetic tool holders magnetize your  gouges, chisels, etc.? I notice you are sticking them on the handles and not the tool.

I don't use any magnetized tool holders. Too many problems, including what Bill has mentioned about sharpening debris remaining attached to the blade, and it gets even worse if steel wool is used in the shop.

The strips you are seeing are Velcro. Yes, the Velcro can wear out in twenty years or so of intensive use, so might need to be replaced something like once per two decades.

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42 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

Micro fracture chips will stick to a magnetized edge and further hasten the destruction of a fine edge during use.

That is what I suspected.

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29 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

I don't use any magnetized tool holders. Too many problems, including what Bill has mentioned. The strips you are seeing are Velcro. Yes, the Velcro can wear out in twenty years or so of intensive use, so might need to be replaced something like once per two decades.

Very cool idea as I have outgrown the number of slots on my wooden holder. I am verging on being a gouge and chisel junkie. They say the first step to recovery is recognizing the problem.

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19 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Do you not find that many vm jobs require a light source that casts a shadow?

If you want shadows, a more directional bulb is good. I like the GE Nighthawks - high output and nice white balance. I'm not sure about flicker because I'm not very sensitive to it. Definitely more than a buck.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/GE-Nighthawk-100-Watt-EQ-LED-Par20-Warm-White-Dimmable-Flood-Light-Bulb/1000445307

(Apologies to non-American shoppers.)

 

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28 minutes ago, scordatura said:

Very cool idea as I have outgrown the number of slots on my wooden holder. I am verging on being a gouge and chisel junkie. They say the first step to recovery is recognizing the problem.

"Recovery" can be quite a challenge. Recently, When I presented at a Michigan Violin Maker's meeting, some woman told me,

"From what I'd read, I thought you were going to be much bigger and badasser".

I responded, "What? Ya mean I'm not"?  :lol:

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1 hour ago, David Burgess said:

Thanks, Bill. I'd been considering installing screw-in bases is my remaining fluorescent recessed ceiling light fixtures (with the old-style magnetic ballasts) which aren't as efficient and strobe badly. Do you think the light output was actually less, or was the "color temperature" just different, giving the impression of less light?

By the way, I ran across these during my search, and have now installed them in my two screw-in garage ceiling sockets. Super "white" light which is somewhat aimable. and much more light than I have ever had in the garage before, except when I used several 600 watt halogen lamps. These are claimed to be 60 watts each. The super-white light probably doesn't give great color rendition, but since I don't varnish or varnish-retouch in the garage, it probably doesn't matter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MRDXQC7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(sorry, it took me a while to figure out how to get the link to work)

 

It's hard to say if it's just a difference in color temperature, but the light appeared noticeably diminished. I have a fiber optic certification meter that will yield very accurate light measurements, accurate to a hundredth of a decibel; I'll have to take some measurements and see what's really happening.

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58 minutes ago, MarkBouquet said:

I don't find shadows to be problematic, perhaps because the eight foot fixture has light coming from a long continuous strip. Also, you can get these LED tubes with either clear plastic coverings or translucent coverings which diffuse the light somewhat. I chose translucent, and I think it was the right choice for my application.

The light quality is superb for me. I can judge the condition of a cutting edge, the set of a plane blade, or the markings on a ruler with a clarity that my old fluorescent tubes simply wouldn't allow.

Finally, here's a photo of my fixture, and it must be admitted that the reflector really doesn't contribute anything to the LED output because, unlike fluorescent tubes which cast light in all directions, these LED tubes have a 120 degree output and all the light is directed down. I've had this fixture for about 35 years now, and it was a few decades old when I got it. The steel is heavy gage like they don't use anymore, and it just has an industrial retro (made in USA) charm that I wanted to keep alive.

IMG_1255.JPG

I think the tubes certainly would be the answer to the multiple shadow issue.

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53 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

"Recovery" can be quite a challenge. Recently, When I presented at a Michigan Violin Maker's meeting, some woman told me,

"From what I'd read, I thought you were going to be much bigger and badasser".

I responded, "What? Ya mean I'm not"?  :lol:

Hey you are in good company. That is what Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees hear when fans meet them. :)

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On 1/25/2020 at 4:00 PM, David Burgess said:

Thanks for the photo and the reference to the bulbs. I'm going to try these

I adopted a similar setup for my shop - two overhead lights (same sort of fixture as yours but from IKEA) and two IKEA task lamps on either side of the bench a-fixed with these handy lamp bushing from Lee valley. Plus a central ceiling light

When I built the studio - I wired things so I could turn the main overhead light and overhead bench lights on/off independently. The IKEA bench lamps are the old style ones with the switch on the top of the lamp. (these are much better as you turn them on as grab them). So all lighting adjustments are within arms reach of my bench and can be adjusted based on the task at hand.

bench.jpg

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