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Newfiddleguy

Thoughts on this Violin

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This is the lightest and best sounding fiddle I have it’s loud and the tone is very sweet and pure but I know nothing about it other than it’s been Repaired a lot lol. It has a grafted scroll. Thoughts on age? Origin?

 

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Aah come on Doug - that`s a bit harsh mate! This old lady obviously has been through a lot but she still sings, that should count for something? It looks sort of homemade, to me the tool marks on the scroll, the worn out treble f hole and slight asymmetric C bouts are quite striking. Haven't we all made things like this when we first started? If someone in the future would care half as much about my early creations I would be very happy.

 

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There is something that I really love about heavily repaired or amateur violins. They have a real charm to them. 

Looks nice. 

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I have the impression that this violin originally had a dark coloured varnish, and was quite nice. It has been manipulated beyond recognition, but I presume it was from the K&K area, late 18th C.

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I have the impression that this violin originally had a dark coloured varnish, and was quite nice. It has been manipulated beyond recognition, but I presume it was from the K&K area, late 18th C.

Just my impression, too, maybe even a bit earlier. The ff look a bit like Leidolff or Thir and the inner scroll windings are showing remains of a dark varnish.

The best and most merciful  thing to do would be to cover all and everything with a really dark varnish again now.

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Or perhaps just leave alone and enjoy that sweet sound. It is what it is but perhaps here is a case where function is much more important than appearance. 

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13 minutes ago, Michael.N. said:

It is what it is but perhaps here is a case where function is much more important than appearance.

It's just an idea to make the form more following the function.;)

 

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I have the impression that this violin originally had a dark coloured varnish, and was quite nice. It has been manipulated beyond recognition, but I presume it was from the K&K area, late 18th C.

What does K&K stand for???

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Not much like any Leidolff or Thir soundholes that I have seen (and I have handled a fair few over the years, see also Hopfner's Geissenhof book which has some nice Thir's illustrated).  Amatise yes, but other than that... K&K but more towards the Moravian side?

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I'm sorry, but "Amatisè" would incline for me a bit more balance and elegance. Big points/slender tongues/narrow stems would be features pointing to the Viennese school. But it's more to this than one single observation, also model, arching and scroll.

 

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Blank face I'm just talking about the formal category - not their balance or elegance. With  Thir and Leidolff (who have ff's both in the broader Stainer and Amati categories) stems tend to hook a bit at the ends. The model and the arching do not look like Thir or Leidolff to me.

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16 minutes ago, tradfiddle said:

 With  Thir and Leidolff (who have ff's both in the broader Stainer and Amati categories) 

I suggested „K&K region“, and defined it. Thier & Leidolff are part of this school, but there were 15 different workshops in 18th C Vienna, and many outside of Vienna or in Bohemia. Tracking this one down is a lost cause, since it has been so manipulated or damaged.

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They had several models, ff patterns etc, so what's the point? At least the OP is doubtlessly within that range.

Another 1760 Leidolff :

 

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3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I suggested „K&K region“, and defined it. Thier & Leidolff are part of this school, but there were 15 different workshops in 18th C Vienna, and many outside of Vienna or in Bohemia. Tracking this one down is a lost cause, since it has been so manipulated or damaged.

Yup, I didn't get the point of excluding something so categorically based on somehow biased ideas.

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Just observing the hooked ff stems (that is to say, the shape of the ends of the stems) which are a consistent feature across the three we have just illustrated - not  in the instrument submitted for evaluation. Hooked versus squared.  I have no biases (?) against any of these categories - I love Leidolff and Thir violins! Better to light a candle...

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"Hooks" also get removed - when a violin has been revarnished and messed about with, better to trust the flow of the lines, the inclination and the general proportions.

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And locating pins added too I imagine.  It would be useful to know the back length. The spacing of the ff's on the submitted example is also on the tighter side. Which puts me in mind of some late 18th/early 19th Moravian instruments.  That does not get changed! Also compare  the shape of the upper bout against the Thir and Leidolff illustrated on this thread. The submitted example appears more rectangular/ less rounded? I copy the photos below so that they are closer to one another. That said, and as previously affirmed, I entirely agree this is from the lands of the venerable K&K.

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