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keyboardclass

Can anyone explain this repair?

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Having seen many gynaecologicaly inserted “studs” from previous repairmen, I cannot say I am impressed. With the OP violin, I would open the belly/rib joint up to the lower corners, wash the crack out, and glue it together with some stretcher cramps. Re glue the edges and finished. I would also shorten the saddle, which is probably what pushed the crack open in the first place. I would not use or need any crack “stud” at all. It would be easier to repair the crack with the belly off, but if that weren’t in the budget, that is how I would proceed.

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How do you make a cleat fit with the top still attached?  Even with the top partially open it would be difficult to do.  I have seen cleats that were hardly held in place because the fit was so poor. 

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On 1/19/2020 at 7:58 PM, keyboardclass said:

There's glue in the crack and I assume the pin stops it spreading? 

"IMO"

Actually the pin caused that crack , it's seems to me that pin added later from non-professional collector for stupid idea .

the tip of the pin is sharp and too hard for the spruce , the tip of the pin must be flatter to avoid that crack 
you can ask a carpenter about the technique of inserting pin in a thin wood .

 

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6 minutes ago, mood2000 said:

"IMO"

Actually the pin caused that crack , it's seems to me that pin added later from non-professional collector for stupid idea .

the tip of the pin is sharp and too hard for the spruce , the tip of the pin must be flatter to avoid that crack 
you can ask a carpenter about the technique of inserting pin in a thin wood .

 

Earlier in the thread I was encouraged to look under the fingerboard - surely enough there was another peg.  

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1 hour ago, mood2000 said:

"IMO"

Actually the pin caused that crack , it's seems to me that pin added later from non-professional collector for stupid idea .

the tip of the pin is sharp and too hard for the spruce , the tip of the pin must be flatter to avoid that crack 
you can ask a carpenter about the technique of inserting pin in a thin wood .

 

Probably a good idea to read the rest of the thread.

These pins are original to the construction. No-one puts pins in the front of a violin in order to sex it up ...

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On 1/19/2020 at 12:29 PM, Michael Darnton said:

To fix this type of crack correctly it's necessary to take the top off, so there's a temptation to rub some glue in, hope for the best, and leave the full-scale repair to the next guy, hoping the crack doesn't run right up to the other end in the meantime (which it probably never will do.)

 

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

Having seen many gynaecologicaly inserted “studs” from previous repairmen, I cannot say I am impressed. With the OP violin, I would open the belly/rib joint up to the lower corners, wash the crack out, and glue it together with some stretcher cramps. Re glue the edges and finished. I would also shorten the saddle, which is probably what pushed the crack open in the first place. I would not use or need any crack “stud” at all. It would be easier to repair the crack with the belly off, but if that weren’t in the budget, that is how I would proceed.

Sometimes, gluing from the outside (even if the crack doesn't come completely together), and reinforcing with a cleat inserted through the ff hole can better preserve what is original to the instrument, than extensively opening seams or removing the top. And if done well, may keep the fiddle going for another 100 years. And when the top eventually needs to be removed for other reasons, or some accumulation of reasons, the quicky repair is very easy to undo.

(I tend to be very conservative about removing tops, since it is rare to see a top which has been removed with no collateral damage.)

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29 minutes ago, David Burgess said:

 

Sometimes, gluing from the outside (even if the crack doesn't come completely together), and reinforcing with a cleat inserted through the ff hole can better preserve what is original to the instrument, than extensively opening seams or removing the top. And if done well, may keep the fiddle going for another 100 years. And when the top eventually needs to be removed for other reasons, or some accumulation of reasons, the quicky repair is very easy to undo.

(I tend to be very conservative about removing tops, since it is rare to see a top which has been removed with no collateral damage.)

That's good to know.

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6 hours ago, FiddleDoug said:

Hi Jeffrey,

I did read your link, but I guess that it wasn't clear to me exactly how far open you have to spring open the top (gap mm?), and what kind of clamps you're using to clamp through that gap. Thanks!

Hi Doug;

The clamp in the thread I linked required about 8 mm clearance and have an in-line bottom pad.  The fiddle was opened half way into the C bout (about as far as one would open an instrument for a "NY neck lift" except from the bottom end).  The top can be held open using a sound post or dowel about halfway up the lower bout during the procedure.  The advantages I note are in ease of cleat location, controlling contact, controlling grain direction and clean-up.  Certainly not the only way to skin a cat, though.  :) 

I do have some clamps requiring less clearance, but 8mm was an easy stretch in this case.  The clamps you linked to look like they'd only require about 5 mm, but they do have a slightly raised bottom pad.... maybe not enough to worry about though.

Like David, I tend to be on the conservative side when it comes to top removal... maybe less so when it comes to partial opening of the seams, but in the case I illustrated the crack was 8 cm and heading for the sound post area on a top with relatively wide grain.  It's been absolutely fine and remained pretty much undetectable from the outside for 6 years now (as have a few others I needed to attend to that winter).

 

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