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antero

Schönbach or Brünn?

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Hi there,

This violin bears a bad copy of W T Jaura label and F Zyka jun (Brno) repair label and inscription  from 1970s.

Could it be that it never actually left Brno or does it show more Schönbach marks?

Some of you might think that it does not matter anyhow, but I would gladly learn more.

Violin shows intensive use marks but it is still pity that Mr Zyka decided to retouch it so massively that it looks more or less over-varnished.

I think it is BOB, although not completely sure.

Sorry for bad photos, as usual.

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20 minutes ago, antero said:

Hi there,

This violin bears a bad copy of W T Jaura label 

 

What is a "bad copy of a W T Jaura label" and what significance do you attach to i?. I couldn't find it in your pictures

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I do not attach  any significance to this "Jaura" label.

I have not even studied Jaura labels' design, because the print of it seems so rastered and fake to me.

Mr Jaura did not own his kind of printer, I am afraid.

There is a tiny possibility, however, that who ever inserted the Jaura label, actually thought it was Jaura's...

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Jacob, you kind of keep on pedalling the obviously ponitless Jaura label, I was curious to learn, whether it was probaly by Mr Zyka himself. Of Brünn.

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It looks like from a ca. 1850 date, so can’t be a Zyka, if this is what you’re asking. Without a reliable signature it is pointless to call it something other than Bohemian.

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18 hours ago, Blank face said:

It looks like from a ca. 1850 date, so can’t be a Zyka, if this is what you’re asking. Without a reliable signature it is pointless to call it something other than Bohemian.

Well, there is a Mr Zyka senior, too, but I agree: if it goes that far as 1850 - no this connection, most likely.

But please refer to my original question.

If you put Shönbach and rest of the XIX ct Bohemia in the same box, I rest my case.

If not, I would ask further. Prague was always a wannabe Wien.

Wha about Brünn?

Is it a bob?

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4 minutes ago, antero said:

 

If not, I would ask further. Prague was always a wannabe Wien.

 

I don't think this is true in terms of violin-making. Prague had an independent tradition at least equal to that of Vienna.

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5 minutes ago, antero said:

Well, there is a Mr Zyka senior, too, but I agree: if it goes that far as 1850 - no this connection, most likely.

But please refer to my original question.

If you put Shönbach and rest of the XIX ct Bohemia in the same box, I rest my case.

If not, I would ask further. Prague was always a wannabe Wien.

Wha about Brünn?

Is it a bob?

It depends on if you are talking about 18th C Brünn or 20th C Brno

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1 minute ago, martin swan said:

don't think this is true in terms of violin-making. Prague had an independent tradition at least equal to that of Vienna

Probably yes, in violin making. Perhaps not so, in political terms.

In every empire, you look either up or down. So the welch and scotch...

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24 minutes ago, antero said:

Agreed, please tell me more!

 

18th, C. Brunn was more alligned with Viennese violin making. After the advent of the Markneukirchen/Schönbach violin industry in the 19th. C it became more dominated by shopkeepers who stuck their labels into Schönbach instruments. In the 20th C. there have been plenty of repairers, who liked to glue repair labels in, but not so much new making. I don’t see the context with your illustrated instrument.

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37 minutes ago, antero said:

Wha about Brünn?

Is it a bob?

It's right that your violin should be called more precisely "West-Bohemian/Vogtlandish". Brünn is located more south east Bohemia and was more related to the Viennese school during the 18th and early 19th century, as far as I know. This was finished like so many other schools by the competition of cheap Schönbach products later, so that firms like Lidl Brno just sold Schönbach violins. But Jacob is much more informed than I.

Edit: Yes I was beaten now.;)

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39 minutes ago, antero said:

And more ,  maybe somebody wishes to comment on lower saddle originaal design - the convex inlet into the lower rib.

This was a feature of 18th till mid 19th Vogtland/Westbohemian making, too, also the marks of a toothed plane at the inside ribs; therefore the assumed dating.

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

This was a feature of 18th till mid 19th Vogtland/Westbohemian making, too, also the marks of a toothed plane at the inside ribs; therefore the assumed dating.

Thank you, good point!

And thanks to everybody else.

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