Three13

Pinned Tops

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About "school" practices ...  isn't it likely that many times a maker would have his own good idea for something,  or were they all a bunch of robotic morons?  (Who worked for starvation wages.)

 

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Obviously, there are renegades and inventive sorts everywhere, but I'm looking for the rule, rather than the exception with this question.

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Schools that used the “built on the back” method, have no positioning pins on the back, because redundant. Schools building around a mould can have pins, while useful, but not absolutely necessary

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7 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

Schools that used the “built on the back” method, have no positioning pins on the back, because redundant. Schools building around a mould can have pins, while useful, but not absolutely necessary

That much I know - is the same also true of the front, or do you see pinned tops on built-on-back or outside mold violins?

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11 minutes ago, Three13 said:

That much I know - is the same also true of the front, or do you see pinned tops on built-on-back or outside mold violins?

The use of locating pins on both belly and back is a central feature of classical cremonese making (with notable exceptions) and it's imitators. I would refer you to Roger Hargrave's writings on the working methods of Guarneri del Gesu, where the utility of this practice is discussed at length. 

Outside this core set of makers, the presence of pins is not particularly valuable as a point of identification. It's also worth noting that pins are on occasion later additions to an instrument, in some cases as an attempt to illicitly tie it to an earlier Cremonese origin.

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52 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

The use of locating pins on both belly and back is a central feature of classical cremonese making 

As it was everywhere where the inside mould was used. If you have blinkers on, you will appraise everything as “clasical cremonese making”, which of course would be nonsense.

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To answer the OP question, Mirecourt making of the 18th and early 19th century very often pinned both bottom and belly, though they used a kind of building on the back method. Vogtland pinned usually the belly only, Mittenwald (inside mould) I have seen with or without pins in both plates.

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7 hours ago, Blank face said:

To answer the OP question, Mirecourt making of the 18th and early 19th century very often pinned both bottom and belly, though they used a kind of building on the back method. Vogtland pinned usually the belly only, Mittenwald (inside mould) I have seen with or without pins in both plates.

Thanks!

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I understand the reason for using locating pins to align the plates with the rib structure center line when gluing, but it sure would have been nice if some makers had only filled the hole in the plate afterwards, rather than installing a pin through the plate and down into the block.

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8 minutes ago, Bill Yacey said:

it sure would have been nice if some makers had only filled the hole in the plate afterwards, rather than installing a pin through the plate and down into the block.

Here, here! I second this. 

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Sure, but using the through pin sure helps line everything up when gluing. If the pins are nice and obvious, and the original maker doesn't glue the pins themselves in, it shouldn't cause you much trouble in opening. 

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18 minutes ago, JacksonMaberry said:

it shouldn't cause you much trouble in opening. 

The problem from my perspective isn't opening, it is the locator pin cracks caused by the pins as the top plate shrinks.

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4 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

The problem from my perspective isn't opening, it is the locator pin cracks caused by the pins as the top plate shrinks.

Ah I see. Though this outcome is far from guaranteed, I know it happens. Just before assembly, I sand down the pins a little bit with some 220. They still help with glue up but leave some wiggle room for wood movement. 

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4 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

The problem from my perspective isn't opening, it is the locator pin cracks caused by the pins as the top plate shrinks.

I still question if pins located on the center glue joint aren't more prone to cracking/opening  the center joint. I have always set my pins off the center joint for this reason. Would welcome experienced opinions... 

 

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1 hour ago, Ernest Martel said:

I still question if pins located on the center glue joint aren't more prone to cracking/opening  the center joint. I have always set my pins off the center joint for this reason. Would welcome experienced opinions... 

 

I offset my pins, and I use metal drill stock for the pin when gluing up, to be removed once the glue is cured. Then I fill the holes with a shallow plug, rather than driving a pin into the block.

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