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keyboardclass

Brompton complaint

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1 minute ago, martin swan said:

 I think he would get on better by acknowledging some responsibility and perhaps asking them to put the item back into auction with a full condition report and then asking for a credit against any shortfall.

 

Now that's reasonable.

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19 minutes ago, keyboardclass said:

because mine haven't the training.

I might agree if it was the sort of thing done by a top restorer, and would only be visible to those with specialist equipment, or other top restorers.

But it is not that, it is the total opposite of that. You would only need to have your eyes open a tiny bit to see the dreadful state of the belly. I have no idea what eye training you feel you would need, and it is frankly ridiculous to say you didn’t notice.

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9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

It's a figure of speech ... I don't "think it means" anything other than it's all a bit tiring, we are going round in circles, and really it's not a great idea to buy at auction if you can't see a crack like that either in the photos or in the flesh.

I wish keyboardclass luck with Bromptons, but his approach seems very adversarial. I think he would get on better by acknowledging some responsibility and perhaps asking them to put the item back into auction with a full condition report and then asking for a credit against any shortfall.

 

If this is tiring for you, nobody is making you read and respond. Get some rest my friend. I think both parties are at fault and like you said, a compromise would seem appropriate (this is the first you mention of compromise, even after your "all I would say" comment), but after 6 months, forum brother keyboardclass has been blown off without any satisfactory result. You're often in town, maybe he can call you as an expert witness in his trial since you are now (so late in the game) suggesting a compromise.

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2 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

I might agree if it was the sort of thing done by a top restorer, and would only be visible to those with specialist equipment, or other top restorers.

But it is not that, it is the total opposite of that. You would only need to have your eyes open a tiny bit to see the dreadful state of the belly. I have no idea what eye training you feel you would need, and it is frankly ridiculous to say you didn’t notice.

 I'm expected to see what they can't?   I'm just a punter off the street.  Yes I've spend thousands (and thousands) on instruments but where there has been a condition report it's been professionally carried out.  I feel my commission pays for that service.  I'll say again:  If it's so obvious why didn't they see it?

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Bromptons is going to stand by their Terms and Conditions, which are absolutely clear and unambiguous. There is no room for them to compromise. You agreed to their Terms and Conditions by bidding.

If they didn't stand by their Terms and Conditions, then they would be subject to the unending whines and rants of every buyer experiencing buyer's remorse.

Overpaying for an item in an auction is almost guaranteed. Google "winner's curse:"

Quote

The winner's curse is a tendency for the winning bid in an auction to exceed the intrinsic value or true worth of an item. The gap in auctioned vs. intrinsic value can typically be attributed to incomplete information, bidders, emotions, or a variety of other subjective factors that can influence bidders.

 

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3 minutes ago, GeorgeH said:

Bromptons is going to stand by their Terms and Conditions, which are absolutely clear and unambiguous. There is no room for them to compromise. 

If they didn't stand by them, then they would be subject to the unending whines and rants of every buyer experiencing buyer's remorse.

Overpaying for an item in an auction is almost guaranteed. Google "winner's curse:"

 

If OP can show in court that the House knew or should have known their condition report was false or misleading then his case could have teeth. I think he should file a claim just to get it out of his system, to test the waters, and for our entertainment and education, whether or not anyone here thinks he will win or lose.

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13 minutes ago, BassClef said:

If this is tiring for you, nobody is making you read and respond. Get some rest my friend. I think both parties are at fault and like you said, a compromise would seem appropriate (this is the first you mention of compromise, even after your "all I would say" comment), but after 6 months, forum brother keyboardclass has been blown off without any satisfactory result. You're often in town, maybe he can call you as an expert witness in his trial since you are now (so late in the game) suggesting a compromise.

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I don't understand your tone. I think I've been quite patient in explaining my point of view and why the idea of litigation is an extreme over-reaction and unlikely to succeed.

But I will take your advice and butt out. Life is short.

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1 minute ago, GeorgeH said:

Bromptons is going to stand by their Terms and Conditions, which are absolutely clear and unambiguous. There is no room for them to compromise. 

 

Unless they're breaking the law.  The pamphlet notsodeepblue posted some pages ago makes that clear to me.  https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice factsheets/Consumer Affairs/c-buying-at-auction.pdf

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20 hours ago, keyboardclass said:

Just had a chance to look through this.  This is good: However, the
auction house does have some responsibilities, for example, it must not make
a false statement about the goods.

also: You may be entitled to compensation if: the auction house knowingly made a false statement about the goods
in order to persuade you to buy them.

 

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5 hours ago, martin swan said:

I don't understand your tone. I think I've been quite patient in explaining my point of view and why the idea of litigation is an extreme over-reaction and unlikely to succeed.

But I will take your advice and butt out. Life is short.

By bad, I value your posts and like you. Just feeling a little excitable today. Your eventual suggestion of compromise was good albeit late. Cheers.

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I recently bought a violin at a different auction house where they covered an actual hole in the rib with the lot number sticker.... Not in the condition report either. 

You just get screwed at some auctions. Learn from it, do better next time. 

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50 minutes ago, keyboardclass said:

Yes I've spend thousands (and thousands) on instruments but where there has been a condition report it's been professionally carried out. 

Were any of these at Brompton's? I agree with you that we should get some service for the increasing commission that auction houses are charging.  But its not going to eliminate all risk. You had this violin in hand and still bought it with that honkin crack, I think that's why people here aren't giving you much love.

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8 minutes ago, Porteroso said:

I recently bought a violin at a different auction house where they covered an actual hole in the rib with the lot number sticker.... Not in the condition report either. 

You just get screwed at some auctions. Learn from it, do better next time. 

And you didn't raise merry hell?  They'll just do it again.

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6 minutes ago, keyboardclass said:

A honking crack they reported as 'minor'.

Did you consider it minor when you looked at it? There's a disconnect here.

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1 hour ago, keyboardclass said:

However, the auction house does have some responsibilities, for example, it must not make
a false statement about the goods.

They did not make an objectively "false statement." They offered a subjective opinion as "guidance only." 

When you bid, you agreed to their Terms and Conditions.

End of story.

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56 minutes ago, keyboardclass said:

Their terms and conditions are not above the law.

That is exactly right because their Terms and Conditions comply with the law. They would not have been in business for more than 30 years if they did not comply. And you agreed to those Terms and Conditions.

But do let us know how it turns out for you.

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14 minutes ago, keyboardclass said:

And with all these apologists and compliant pigeons no doubt they'll go on for another 30 years!

they will go on for another 30 years because careless people buy junk for 800 quid + commission thinking it's cheaper than going to a violin maker

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1 hour ago, keyboardclass said:

Surely once I've walked out of a makers shop I lose 50%? 

If you need to resell quickly this is probably a good number. But it would be the same at auction, roughly 25% commission when you buy and another when you sell.

 

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