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PhilipKT

Re: Curtis

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4 hours ago, Blank face said:

Sorry Bill, but even for a person called "village idiot" several times this is stupid. Just look at the context and think if it's expressing respect to call a group of persons (to avoid "sex" or "gender") as -things.

 

Not fair, I’m the one and only “Village Idiot.” 

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

Very sorry, but this title is exclusively granted by VdA.:rolleyes:

yes, the real village idiot if there is one, with you a likely contender

whoever used the phrase "anything is a skirt" didn't intend it to be "dehumanizing", so how can it be?  reminds me of a hypnotic response to a trigger phrase

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On 11/21/2019 at 5:01 AM, AtlVcl said:

Some people will believe anything in a skirt because....well...they're such delicate things, after all, and of course none would ever exaggerate or misunderstand or misinterpret, much less lie.

41 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

whoever used the phrase "anything is a skirt" didn't intend it to be "dehumanizing", so how can it be? 

Yes, how can it be? Surely was intended as a compliment, not intending to belittle and derogate "anything" as anything worse and those believing them as half idiots (at least). Thanks for teaching us.

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10 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

if i say "he chases anything in a skirt" are you somehow diminished and dehumanized?  Your real argument has to be with alt daring to say there are untrustworthy women. 

"Chasing anything in a skirt" is the same way dehumanizing; it's diminishing women to things being chased by some male person like animals or as a kind of sports.

It's a big difference if you're saying this in a pub after midnight or as a (bad) joke in a private conversation and not many would care I'm supposing, but at a public forum in regard of an alleged rape of a minor this is aiming to depreciate women making such allegations from the start, as "anything" unvariably inferior and unreliable, especially in comparison to men having a higher status. Therefore it's sexistic speech per definition.

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^what it eventually comes down to is something women have available to tell themselves that lives amount to more than the sum total of countless chance encounters

15 hours ago, duane88 said:

We have many, many skirt-wearing cis-gendered males here in Seattle.

the actual meaning of anything in a skirt is anything (any person, for the sensitive) remotely resembling a woman.  a man in a skirt doesn't quality...  i don't object to men wearing skirts, in fact under the right circumstances it would be great to see.  the forces that prevent you from laughing at it anymore are truly dehumanizing.

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3 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

the actual meaning of anything in a skirt is anything (any person, for the sensitive) remotely resembling a woman.

That’s intellectual Kindergarten level, and yeah, there are dark forces stealing the nasty boys their p-thingy....

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3 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

...

the actual meaning of anything in a skirt is anything (any person, for the sensitive) remotely resembling a woman.  a man in a skirt doesn't quality...  i don't object to men wearing skirts, in fact under the right circumstances it would be great to see.  the forces that prevent you from laughing at it anymore are truly dehumanizing.

No.

"Thing" means an object. Humans are not things.

If you call a human a "thing" you are objectifying it. This is an insult.

"Hey Ralph! I see you got three things! I got four!"

"Three? Four? Whatcha mean? Cars? Watches? Oh! Kids? Yes. I have three kids. All girls."

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2 hours ago, Blank face said:

That’s intellectual Kindergarten level, and yeah, there are dark forces stealing the nasty boys their p-thingy....

I think you should move on. Tell the moderator about posts you do not like but stop trying to be the forum police. You can have good intentions and you can be right but other people just don't care about your opinions and you are starting to be a bit too much and you are generalizing and becoming insulting. 

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7 hours ago, Blank face said:

"Chasing anything in a skirt" is the same way dehumanizing; it's diminishing women to things being chased by some male person like animals or as a kind of sports.

 

It is not. I asked my wife who is a native English speaker born in the UK and the intend of that sentence is to reflect badly on the man who is so indiscriminate and obsessive he will chase a grand father clock dressed in a skirt.

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This is all my fault. I apologize for the original comment. I was disappointed that a serious discussion, about a serious accusation, involving mature adults would deteriorate and diverge. There is a phrase, “the better angels of our nature” and apparently none of them ever participate in discussions like this.

hyperbole should always be recognized as such and should need no explanation, but it doesn’t really have a role in such interaction.

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3 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

This is all my fault. I apologize for the original comment. I was disappointed that a serious discussion, about a serious accusation, involving mature adults would deteriorate and diverge.

It has a reason for deteriorating and that is called INTOLERANCE. A couple of people here want everybody to think like them. Educate but without the sarcasm and the insults and the constant appeal to "WE". I think it is very good to air these issues in a kind and respectful manner and with sensitivity to other cultures/races/religions. Always to keep in mind that vast number of people of different culture/race/religion value the well being of their families MUCH more than the convenience of an individual.

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1 hour ago, VicM said:

I think you should move on. Tell the moderator about posts you do not like but stop trying to be the forum police. You can have good intentions and you can be right but other people just don't care about your opinions and you are starting to be a bit too much and you are generalizing and becoming insulting. 

That's an interesting point of view.

It's always fascinating when somebody starts to speak "in the name of people". I was under the impression that the first reply was felt as a worse sexistic insult which shouldn't be allowed here by all posters except Bill, long before I came in. But people seems to be a different species, so please would you explain in which people's name you are speaking?

1 hour ago, VicM said:

It is not. I asked my wife who is a native English speaker born in the UK and the intend of that sentence is to reflect badly on the man who is so indiscriminate and obsessive he will chase a grand father clock dressed in a skirt.

So when writing " Some people will believe anything in a skirt because....well...they're such delicate things, after all, and of course none would ever exaggerate or misunderstand or misinterpret, much less lie. " he meant clocks, not women or girls. That's another interesting point of view.

58 minutes ago, VicM said:

Always to keep in mind that vast number of people of different culture/race/religion value the well being of their families MUCH more than the convenience of an individual.

Also interesting that there are "people of different culture/race/religion..." valuating rape and sexual abuse of minors, so that they will be offended if I don't agree. And please explain, what has this to do with "well being of their families"?

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1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

This is all my fault. I apologize for the original comment. I was disappointed that a serious discussion, about a serious accusation, involving mature adults would deteriorate and diverge. There is a phrase, “the better angels of our nature” and apparently none of them ever participate in discussions like this.

hyperbole should always be recognized as such and should need no explanation, but it doesn’t really have a role in such interaction.

I don't think that it's your fault that the first reply had a content which was seen as inedaquate and caused all the following. But indeed this is and was always a difficult topic to discuss here, like I tried to explain before.

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7 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

^what it eventually comes down to is something women have available to tell themselves that lives amount to more than the sum total of countless chance encounters

the actual meaning of anything in a skirt is anything (any person, for the sensitive) remotely resembling a woman.  a man in a skirt doesn't quality...  i don't object to men wearing skirts, in fact under the right circumstances it would be great to see.  the forces that prevent you from laughing at it anymore are truly dehumanizing.

You would be incorrect. I have to deal with loads of gender-specific language that is a minefield.

The language is changing, and that causes problems, unexpected ones, for those who are resistant to it or ignorant of it.

A cis-gendered, or otherwise, male/man in a skirt qualifies. It probably didn't in 1975, but it does now.

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19 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

if i say "he chases anything in a skirt" are you somehow diminished and dehumanized?  Your real argument has to be with alt daring to say there are untrustworthy women. 

So... first, not a single person here is upset that Larry has suggested that sometimes women lie.  In the original thread, we go into some detail about the statistics about False Reports of Rape (somewhere between 5%-10%).  I'm sure we've all known women who lie.

Rather, it's an attack on those of us here who believe Lara St. John and the 4 other women who corroborated her story, saying that we only believe them because they're women.

 

But since we are talking about sexism and Curtis and skirts...

The most famous viola teacher of the 20th Century was a lady named Karen Tuttle.  She was a magnificent performer, a favorite of Casals, and a genius teacher (when his students had technical questions, Primrose would send them to Karen).  She went on to teach at Peabody and Juilliard and Curtis.

She attended Curtis to study with Primrose, and, famously, was not allowed in the building her first day because she was wearing pants.

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14 minutes ago, duane88 said:

A cis-gendered, or otherwise, male/man in a skirt qualifies. It probably didn't in 1975, but it does now.

You’re right and I was wrong. Even in a Kindergarten all the kids know actually that “something/one in a skirt” isn’t necessarily a girl or woman, nor the other way round.

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Also interesting that there are "people of different culture/race/religion..." valuating rape and sexual abuse of minors, so that they will be offended if I don't agree. And please explain, what has this to do with "well being of their families"?

I am not aware of such people !   Which people are you talking about ? And I think the best is to visit you and explain everything face to face. Then you explain me and I explain you - much better communication with no delays.  Please stop "educating" people. You did your piece and decent people understand while indecent people will not care. No point to hammer same nail over and over.

 

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I don’t know such people neither, so I asked about an explanation about the regard to topic.

Actually I‘m seeing you attacking me from the first moment on in the other thread, so excuse that there won’t be an immediate invitation.

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9 minutes ago, Blank face said:

I don’t know such people neither, so I asked about an explanation about the regard to topic.

Actually I‘m seeing you attacking me from the first moment on in the other thread, so excuse that there won’t be an immediate invitation.

I am glad you don't know such people. I don't know such people and I did not mention such people. That is why I was surprised when you implied that I did. If you go to the other thread and read carefully you will see  how you took my words out of context and then claimed I "blame the victim". But I do not blame the victim - this did not pass my mind. I am not mad. I am a grown up with a grown up job and three grown daughters. I do not blame victims of rape. It is extremely disrespectful to imply such thing.  I DO think the victim must report the crime to the authorities or to the parents who must report to authorities. But that is just my opinion and other people have their opinion and I respect that. Am prepared to listen to arguments and discus in civilized manner. Here is what you wrote in the other thread :

" This is complete bullshit ...... The whole discussion is a shame and deep offense for everybody being affected. It is giving room for every irresponsible internet moron to put dirt upon the face of victims and should be closed or deleted immediately by the moderator. "

 

We need to read what the other person really writes and reply in considerate manner even if we disagree. We must avoid insulting others because once we do it a few times they lose any respect for us. You want a world running on fear or respect and civility ?

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4 hours ago, VicM said:

other people just don't care about your opinions

 

4 hours ago, VicM said:

Educate but without the sarcasm and the insults and the constant appeal to "WE".

So, it's okay when you invoke the people who agree with you, but you'd rather "we" didn't do it.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander, my friend.

38 minutes ago, VicM said:

I do not blame victims of rape... I DO think the victim must report the crime...

Are you not suggesting that any victim of a rape who doesn't report it deserves blame for not reporting it?

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1 hour ago, VicM said:

I am glad you don't know such people. I don't know such people and I did not mention such people. That is why I was surprised when you implied that I did. If you go to the other thread and read carefully you will see  how you took my words out of context and then claimed I "blame the victim". But I do not blame the victim - this did not pass my mind. I am not mad. I am a grown up with a grown up job and three grown daughters. I do not blame victims of rape. It is extremely disrespectful to imply such thing.  I DO think the victim must report the crime to the authorities or to the parents who must report to authorities. But that is just my opinion and other people have their opinion and I respect that. Am prepared to listen to arguments and discus in civilized manner. Here is what you wrote in the other thread :

" This is complete bullshit ...... The whole discussion is a shame and deep offense for everybody being affected. It is giving room for every irresponsible internet moron to put dirt upon the face of victims and should be closed or deleted immediately by the moderator. "

 

We need to read what the other person really writes and reply in considerate manner even if we disagree. We must avoid insulting others because once we do it a few times they lose any respect for us. You want a world running on fear or respect and civility ?

Of course you, after telling don't listen to "just a bunch of people with little life experience "" what obviously included myself, insisting that you knew much better what victims of rape had to do, talking to whom you were recommending, or being guilty of later crimes if not going to the police. At least you suggested to put them in prison like in alleged other EU countries (as an example, yes), what's simply not the fact.

What do you know about my experience? Nothing. What do you know about victim traumatizing? Nothing, or you won't ever give such irresponsible advices and clueless accusations. Is making a victim guilty of possible later crimes victim blaming? Or just to mention something like putting them into prison within the same context? In my opinion clearly yes.

Is such behaviour an offense for everybody being affected by sexual assalts, rapes both personally or as a relative? Is it a shame for this forum?

Both clearly yes in my eyes.

So what are you talking about considerate manners and avoiding insults when you were starting to offend feelings and insulting others and don't stop even when you were told that you are doing exactly this repeatedly; or talking about respect and civility, and coming in here again with new argue.

For a moment I thought that this thread could go on a little bit more civilized than the other, but obviously it's better to lock it, too.

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