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Jacob

Violin ID

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Better MK/Sch trade violins weren't built on the back. Not sure exactly when the outside mold came into use, but early 1900s fur sure. maybe Jacob S. knows?

To me this looks like a good trade instrument - the varnish is particularly commercial. 

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49 minutes ago, martin swan said:

The only thing it really looks close to (IMHO) is the sort of "Caussin Shop" violins that were actually made in MK/Sch at the very end of the 19th century

That's a quite interesting information, we discussed it severakl times before. Is this confirmed or more a kind of speculation, and where did you get it from? I suspected more the Austrian/Bohemian Schönbach as source, cause Kauert wrote about Schonbach wholesaler connections to France.

Her are backs of a "d'apres Stainer" prob. outside mould constructed and a Caussin school build on the back. Edges and corners don't feature a big deal of difference to the OP in my eyes, the varnish is clearly different.

 

s-l1600.jpg

IMG_4488.JPG

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11 hours ago, Blank face said:

That's a quite interesting information, we discussed it severakl times before. Is this confirmed or more a kind of speculation, and where did you get it from? I suspected more the Austrian/Bohemian Schönbach as source, cause Kauert wrote about Schonbach wholesaler connections to France.

Her are backs of a "d'apres Stainer" prob. outside mould constructed and a Caussin school build on the back. Edges and corners don't feature a big deal of difference to the OP in my eyes, the varnish is clearly different.

 

s-l1600.jpg

IMG_4488.JPG

The shading, arching, recurve, edgework, elegance of corners, all very different to the OP violin.

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On 11/20/2019 at 12:55 PM, martin swan said:

Better MK/Sch trade violins weren't built on the back. Not sure exactly when the outside mold came into use, but early 1900s fur sure. maybe Jacob S. knows?

To me this looks like a good trade instrument - the varnish is particularly commercial. 

There are many photographic evidences that they started to use moulds in the early 20th century. Here is a 1912 dated photo "Geigenbauwerkstatt im Vogtland" with a sort of outside mould leaning in the corner together with a rib garland made with it, and also an inside mould up on the wall. Actually I'm working at a JH Zimmermann viola from 1927 featuring mitred rib joints which are strongly indicating that it was made with a mould, too.

So the question is, when exactly did they start to use it and how old is the OP? That it is a trade instrument is also out of question and the varnish is what's puzzling me most. But at least we are looking at photos, and sometimes things are more easy when seeing the violin in real life than in photos.

vogtland geigenbau dia.jpg

vogtland geigenbau 1.jpg

vogtland geigenbau dia 1.jpg

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The Babbitt book shows an open Paul Knorr with linings let into the corner blocks. I guess there were plenty of exceptions from our box ticking approach by the 1920/30s

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4 hours ago, Guido said:

I guess there were plenty of exceptions from our box ticking approach by the 1920/30s

There was a lot mixing up in the 20th century, so the "usual boxes" surely didn't apply. When there are morticed linings at a Knorr one can't be sure, too, if this was just made up to give the impression that it was made with an internal mould, what the broad public would more appreciate during this period, but was factually constructed different.

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4 minutes ago, Blank face said:

There was a lot mixing up in the 20th century, so the "usual boxes" surely didn't apply. When there are morticed linings at a Knorr one can't be sure, too, if this was just made up to give the impression that it was made with an internal mould, what the broad public would more appreciate during this period, but was factually constructed different.

This was Vuillaume’s trick ...

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