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Jacob

Violin ID

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Back.thumb.JPG.c706b2dd1d7eaba9be6c1bc9016db992.JPGThis one does not look like the average Markneukirchen product. Not French either. The label is a facsimile Alessandro Gagliano one.

Any ideas?

 

794914694_Bottomrib.thumb.JPG.12711b8b48aeabb55e1507859898cf36.JPG20800655_Cbout.thumb.JPG.c175e8003f9035aba4f239fb955e3025.JPGC-bout.thumb.JPG.4fc714878198dff995de0c0204386c7e.JPGHead1.thumb.JPG.d3779a30b7b26d31e4d817ca09489869.JPGSide.thumb.JPG.20c22ba8a202eb2155940c37128469e7.JPG1529492008_Soundhole.thumb.JPG.0297aea47148ae1da4d04b6dda46525a.JPGThroat.thumb.JPG.37d608fa17d804385220e548c7e72c10.JPGTop.thumb.JPG.92c536e0c9b7c372d19452acdb59ee3b.JPG

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49 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

What makes you think it is not Markneukirchen?

The rib figure running in the same direction all around; shape of the head; the amount of overhang on the corners; the rib corners; the fluting in the throat; the rib heights tapering from 31mm bottom bout up to the upper corners) to 29.5mm at the neck; the extremely close distance of the purfling to the edge; the top arching.

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To me it looks more like better MK work than anything else, in fact rather like a 1920s Roth. The "continuous" grain at the ribs is a nice touch, but it's just the kind of detail you would add if you had actually looked at good Italian violins.

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35 minutes ago, Jacob said:

The rib figure running in the same direction all around; shape of the head; the amount of overhang on the corners; the rib corners; the fluting in the throat; the rib heights tapering from 31mm bottom bout up to the upper corners) to 29.5mm at the neck; the extremely close distance of the purfling to the edge; the top arching.

Can you check the following: 

is the joint of the back exactly in the center? (Or bette: how symmetric is the outline?)

are the linings inserted into the blocks?

are there pin holes on the top?

 

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There's absolutely nothing what would make me think that it's not a better Dutzendarbeit or a small possibility of an early 20th JTL. Is the bottom joint cleated and the rib joints mitred?.

And how long is the LOB?

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10 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Can you check the following: 

is the joint of the back exactly in the center? (Or bette: how symmetric is the outline?)

are the linings inserted into the blocks?

are there pin holes on the top?

 

The joint is dead centre; I haven't had the top off, so I can't tell about the linings; no pin holes on the top.

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12 minutes ago, Blank face said:

There's absolutely nothing what would make me think that it's not a better Dutzendarbeit or a small possibility of an early 20th JTL. Is the bottom joint cleated and the rib joints mitred?.

And how long is the LOB?

LOB at back button over the arching 360mm.

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9 minutes ago, Jacob said:

The joint is dead centre; I haven't had the top off, so I can't tell about the linings; no pin holes on the top.

The joint is IMO the strongest argument for Markneukirchen. I bet if you open the fiddle you will find that the c linings are not inserted into the blocks. 

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Yes, Mittenwald can be counted out. But I'm still unsure if it's Markneukirchen or Mirecourt. A Markneukirchen top is usally pinned to the bottom block, but not always. The absence or presence of cleats at the bottom joint, a closer look at the rib joints and the inside pegbox (blackened?) could give more clue. A 360 mm LOB is common to both places.

The more I'm looking at it details say "Mirecourt".

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Than I defer to the greater experience B). But would be a very Frenchie Mnk; I think I’m having somewhere a very similar „d‘apres Stainer“.

It's a bit difficult because the outline of the belly looks different than of the bottom (different angle of photo) and the treble scroll eye more rounded than the other.

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30 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Yes, Mittenwald can be counted out. But I'm still unsure if it's Markneukirchen or Mirecourt. A Markneukirchen top is usally pinned to the bottom block, but not always. The absence or presence of cleats at the bottom joint, a closer look at the rib joints and the inside pegbox (blackened?) could give more clue. A 360 mm LOB is common to both places.

The more I'm looking at it details say "Mirecourt".

The back is cleated. The inside of the pegbox is varnished, not blackened. Here is another shot of a rib joint.

Corner.thumb.JPG.cd1a0a238b0c174491dd79537837c012.JPG

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

Than I defer to the greater experience B). But would be a very Frenchie Mnk; I think I’m having somewhere a very similar „d‘apres Stainer“.

It's a bit difficult because the outline of the belly looks different than of the bottom (different angle of photo) and the treble scroll eye more rounded than the other.

Yes there are some very nice Laberte "d'apres Jacobus Stainer" violins with rounded scroll eyes, but they tend to be quite idiosyncratic with small "S" scrolls and higher arching than this.

I wouldn't wholly exclude Mirecourt but it just isn't like any actual Mirecourt violin I can think of.

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1 hour ago, reg said:

0997ScrSde1.jpgJ J Van de Geest Johannesburg??

Van de Geest had several labels, but it always had his name on it. The violin about which I posted has a faclimile Gagliano label in it, something which van de Geest never did.

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I would guess bratwurst baguette as well, or something altogether different from French or Markneukirchen. 

( But as I'm usually wrong about this chances are it's MKN.)

Would be nice to know what the blocks and linings look like. Are the corners mitered?

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I'm going for JTL. An "Imitation Old" treatment of the standard JTL  outline and corpus. Is the top block branded JTL? If the fingerboard surface is untouched, is it conical?

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Personally I have never seen a JTL with these smooth edges, rounded corners, and a thick "orange-peel" varnish without any shading. Nor with this style of scroll chamfer or a rounded scroll eye.

The only thing it really looks close to (IMHO) is the sort of "Caussin Shop" violins that were actually made in MK/Sch at the very end of the 19th century. Though the quality is a bit too good ...

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