Sign in to follow this  
HoGo

My "Kreisler Project"

Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, Urban Luthier said:

Thanks for posting HoGo. Where did you get the CT scan of the Kreisler?

I didn't get full scans, just the top, back, ribs and few crosssections like those posted above but in good enough quality that the "rulers" were not blurred but sharp straight off the CT viewer screen. I found them on internet years ago and now I discovered them on my HDD among heaps of my old "interesting" violin related stuff...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, HoGo said:

 I found them on internet years ago and now I discovered them on my HDD among heaps of my old "interesting" violin related stuff...

Yes, that what we all say until we go to compare arching templates to the Strad ones - hmm, why did I fall for this again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool. When you "fly" through the ct scan of the Kreisler you see how the ribs are not perpendicular to the top/back. Also the bass bar is outside the bridge foot! Additionally the top is thin between the f holes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got some more work done, especially aligning the CT crosssection pics with actual size back and front plates and came to conclusion that the large off-squareness of ribs is not half as bad as it looks on the CT scans posted on internet. Namely the one with worst angle posted in old thread:

BC36167E-33FB-416A-882E-01C7BDE97EDB.jpeg

The crossection is taken righ under the upper points so the angle is greatly exaggerated. In reality the top is only slightly wider on the bass side and the top corner is a bit wider. The difference in overhang adding a lot to that as well.

There is one more thing.... I found out that LOC has some wrong pictures on the site. The side views are of another instrument, not the Kreisler Gesu...

Anyone has correct side views of the Kreisler? I would appreciate that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scordatura said:

Hogo how did you reconcile the arching correction?

I'm not there yet, I will finish basic outline of top as-is and some crossections and after that I will try to decide what the original intent of dG was..

So far I think that it's mostly bass side that's sunken and thus got wider in the waist and also soundpost slightly pushed the arch out.

Here is one shot of the crossection shown above in it's position on body (horizontal line). You can see that the edges of top and back align quite well for few centuries old fiddle but the ribs overhangs are a bit uneven, also in the area pictured 1mm of misalignment of edges or rib sqareness would result in 1.5mm or more of difference visible in crossection.

 

crossection.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good points. If my memory serves, there was arching correction or a sound post patch done quite a while ago. Additionally, John Montgomery has been maintaining the Kreisler. I am not sure if he has done anything major to the instrument since he took over from Morel. I do know that the instrument has been polished. I saw it this past summer and the appearance of the varnish has changed quite a bit from times past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have any questions or comments feel free to post here.

You probably noticed the top is viewed from inside (I intentionally left the bassbar footprint and soundpost position to prevent confusion). This is intentional as I have them all aligned as layers in Photoshop/Illustrator. I can flip the top for you if you need.

I forgot to delete two lines in the ribs drawing above so here is clean one. Sorry.

Kreisler-ribs.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have mentioned this before but the bass bar on the Kreisler is outside the bridge foot. That is unless the bridge got knocked out of place for the CT scan. That is unlikely as that instrument would be handled with kid glove care given the value and the people there at the scan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I measure the bar pretty much exactly 15mm inside from centerline at bridge position. The bridge appears to sit with half of bass-side foot over the bar. I haven't studied too deeply what is considered normal value for this.

BTW the top is dangerously thin at the bidge, barely 2mm or even less near the bass foot. Scary! I guess after many restorations and soundpost patch(es) the wood slowly vanished...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HoGo said:

I measure the bar pretty much exactly 15mm inside from centerline at bridge position. The bridge appears to sit with half of bass-side foot over the bar. I haven't studied too deeply what is considered normal value for this.

BTW the top is dangerously thin at the bidge, barely 2mm or even less near the bass foot. Scary! I guess after many restorations and soundpost patch(es) the wood slowly vanished...

Someone at some point went too far with thinning the top. By the way that is partially why the ribs have bowed out. Structurally the arch is weakened if the top is too thin between the f holes. A sound post patch is one thing but a chest patch is another. This is however not the only factor in arching or rib distortion. Most of the DG instruments have been regraduated. The thinknesses of the Cannone show what an unaltered or relatively untampered DG would have been. The good thing is that the Kreisler is an outstanding player's instrument despite the thin top under the bridge and less than conventional bass bar position. Normally the bar is slightly inside the bridge foot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.