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morgana

How do I get a screw extraction tool for a jammed, broken screw out of a violin bow?

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Hi everyone, I can't find anything to attach to my drill that can get this screw that is solidly jammed in a violin bow I have. It's a decent octagonal violin bow full size but very tiny end nipple. Nothing will shift it and it's old, end button snapped off to the hilt flush to the nipple. I don't want to damage it.

It also has the eyelet still attached broken down to the point where it meats the round screw eyelet itself and is extremely hard metal, brass.

Any help appreciated.

 

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If I understand correctly the button of the screw is off and the screw itself is frozen in the eyelet.

Inthe worst case the frog has to be opened (as if to make a rehair) and the eyelet has to be drilled out from the other side. 

Some pics would be good for better advice.

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To drill out (or better mill out) a frozen adjuster screw is a very difficult action if you don't have experience. Probably you will damage the bow when you are doing it the first time, so better to start practicing with some worthless bows.

There were several threads about it, a good one is Josh Henry's advice here, and some very good pictures by jonfrohnen:

 

 

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Yep, open the frog and mill out the eyelet. After that, turn a plug for the milled hole, glue it in place, and put in a new eyelet and screw.

It happens more often than you might think.

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41 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Sounds like the frog is already off if she can see the broken eyelet screw.

then, if not a capped button, remove the pearl dot and mill(safer)/drill it out from the end, bush the button and install a new screw, but reading her orig. description, it sounds like the screw broke off at the nipple and there is no screw protruding to latch on to and turn, thus I thought the need was to remove the eyelet through the mortice of the frog. Once the eyelet is drilled out she should be able to move the eyelet forward far enough to remove the butt end of the screw without damage, but not always.

Pictures are most helpful.

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13 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

If I understand correctly the button of the screw is off and the screw itself is frozen in the eyelet.

Inthe worst case the frog has to be opened (as if to make a rehair) and the eyelet has to be drilled out from the other side. 

Some pics would be good for better advice.

Hi Pruess, luv. I should have said that there is no frog on the bow in question.

I do have another violin bow in same condition which DOES have the frog still attached, which is also a very nice violin bow. However I will keep things none confusing and stick to the bow without the frog.

I will try taking a photo but I stood on my Lumia Phone it's still working but I can't get good enough photos at night. Probably should fix this phone first!

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10 hours ago, Blank face said:

To drill out (or better mill out) a frozen adjuster screw is a very difficult action if you don't have experience. Probably you will damage the bow when you are doing it the first time, so better to start practicing with some worthless bows.

There were several threads about it, a good one is Josh Henry's advice here, and some very good pictures by jonfrohnen:

 

 

Hi Blank Face luv, thank you for taking time to find that thread. I will read that later when I have cleaned out my fish tank and put a dye on my hair. I digress, lol, yes I know it's very very difficult because I had a go a while back on a bow ending up with drilling into the frog from the slider so the top down into the ebony frog and I got to the old copper eyelet screw, even with a diamond headed drill, it took ages to drill into it to crack it, and the ebony around the drill bit was smoking and it caused a big hole in the frog and some splitting of the frog! Sickening isn't it! I hate those old screws, they were rubbish, to big and too hard metal.

Thanks for your help x

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I've read the post you have tagged and I see 2 VERY IMPORTANT big information gaps, which are:-

1. THE BRASS EYELET AND HOW TO GET THE THING REMOVED FROM AROUND THE SCREW AFTER DRILLING IT AND CRACKING IT IN SITU?

2. AFTER DRILLING INTO THE ACTUAL SCREW WHICH IS RUSTY AND HAS EXPANDED AND IS IMMOVABLE, AND THE DRILL HAS CUT THE SCREW IN HALF, HOW WAS IT REMOVED?

Sorry not shouting I just wanted the questions I asked to stand out, for future reference as reading on a small iPhone screen is eye sight unfriendly.

Thanks everyone x

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15 hours ago, morgana said:

I've read the post you have tagged and I see 2 VERY IMPORTANT big information gaps, which are:-

1. THE BRASS EYELET AND HOW TO GET THE THING REMOVED FROM AROUND THE SCREW AFTER DRILLING IT AND CRACKING IT IN SITU?

2. AFTER DRILLING INTO THE ACTUAL SCREW WHICH IS RUSTY AND HAS EXPANDED AND IS IMMOVABLE, AND THE DRILL HAS CUT THE SCREW IN HALF, HOW WAS IT REMOVED?

Sorry not shouting I just wanted the questions I asked to stand out, for future reference as reading on a small iPhone screen is eye sight unfriendly.

Thanks everyone x

1) The screw and eyelet are lost.

2.) This is explained on the second page of the thread.

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You really need to consult with Jerry Pasewicz or Josh Henry.  If I had a bow with problems they would be my first choice.

 

DLB

(yes, I had to look up how to spell Jerry's name :-)

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2 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

You really need to consult with Jerry Pasewicz or Josh Henry.  If I had a bow with problems they would be my first choice.

DLB

(yes, I had to look up how to spell Jerry's name :-)

The spelling of Zygmuntowicz is also rather problematic. ;)

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9 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

You really need to consult with Jerry Pasewicz or Josh Henry.  If I had a bow with problems they would be my first choice.

 

DLB

(yes, I had to look up how to spell Jerry's name :-)

Hi Dwight luv,

who is Jerry Pasewicz? Sorry for my ignorance of this man.

BTW I see you have a Siamese fur baby. How gorgeous. Have you still got him or her?

My Meez Poppy, was run over 4 months ago by my next door neighbour. I am still devastated. Siamese cats are SO loving and loyal and intelligent, sensitive fur lovers.

Back to this bow.

I've made a mess of it. I seen to have completely lost it lately. I don't know!

I asked about getting the brass eyeletted screw holder out as it's wrapped around the actual screw.

The bow is worthwhile to me, can't read the stamp I think it says Jerome Thoubillaire Lamy. So faint. It's v. Hard Brazilwood octagonal and a decent enough bow to save. For me anyway. Thin pickings to get sorted before I get unable to work.

Here's some photos. Sorry for the bad quality of them.

2019_11_18_20_51_34.jpg

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WP_20191118_20_14_33_Smart.jpg

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I tried as you can see, by drilling and damaged the edges of the mortice. Oh well its only some cheap rubbish bow, so who cares. I can keep it to play twinkle twinkle little star.

 

I wonder if I try taking photos in daylight, I can get a better shot. I am getting a new phone at end of this month so better photos.

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19 hours ago, barnesviolins said:

If there is no frog on the bow and it is a broken screw stuck in the stick, have you tried soaking the butt of the bow in vinegar to free the screw?

 

Dorian

Hi Dorian luv, I did ages ago but went on here to try and find a thread concerning soaking hardwood in anything and was warnings, I did and I panicked and got it out and ran away with fear as it distorted as if you can see that at the titsy end, now buggered up of the bow.

Can't I just get my dremel and an attachment drill head behind the eyelet screw as it's right up against the end of the already marred mortice? And burr into it at angle with using buffers of shamgered aluminium tin can lid thingys I have made. They are great. Tubbs swore by them, then hit someone else if it went wrong, fell out of the pub, and cuddled his shop cat or bundle of horses hair, dependant on how drunk he was lol! X

photo of the head. It's a hammer head, it's nicely cut, sorry again about the photo. Its sharper cut thsn it looks on the picture.

 

FilterEffects_19_11_2019 05_44_15.jpg

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Dear Morgana,

I'm afraid my dear  cat Loud Willy has been gone for a few years now.  He was a real character and liked to be one side of a pair of cat headphones purring in my ear anytime he got the chance.  Jerry P. Is a very talented bow and instrument restorer.

https://trianglestrings.com/

He does post here now and again.

Josh Henry is also very talented as well and has done some fine work for me.

https://www.fineviolinbows.com/contact.htm

 

PS

We presently have two rescue kitties Leica and Nikon,  Speedy the Whippet, and Sunkist the Golden Retriever  :-)

DLB

 

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6 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

We presently have two rescue kitties Leica and Nikon,  Speedy the Whippet, and Sunkist the Golden Retriever  :-)

DLB

 

Good for you! There are already more than enough cats and dogs (and humans) than can find good homes.

Excess cats and dogs are "put down" at very high rates, due to overabundance.

One sister and I have no genetic offspring. My other sister has two, both highly successful by most standards,  but she and her husband have also taken on many kids (some through foster parenting programs, and some adopted) who were born with fetal alcohol or crack cocaine syndrome. Not everything on her end has worked out all hunky-dory,  but there have been some occasional major wins. :)

I do wish that I could could come up to the level of that sister, who those in my family sometimes semi-humorously refer to as "Saint Carol". :lol:

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4 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

It's OK David, (Maestro Burgess :-)

My animals are all much better people than I am!

DLB

My brother is a mathematician, My sister is an MD, I am shiftless school teacher.

DLB

And I am no more than a shi(f)tless fiddle maker,;) thanking you for your many valuable contributions. cheers2.gif

 

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7 hours ago, Dwight Brown said:

Dear Morgana,

I'm afraid my dear  cat Loud Willy has been gone for a few years now.  He was a real character and liked to be one side of a pair of cat headphones purring in my ear anytime he got the chance.  Jerry P. Is a very talented bow and instrument restorer.

https://trianglestrings.com/

He does post here now and again.

Josh Henry is also very talented as well and has done some fine work for me.

https://www.fineviolinbows.com/contact.htm

 

PS

We presently have two rescue kitties Leica and Nikon,  Speedy the Whippet, and Sunkist the Golden Retriever  :-)

DLB

 

Ahhh, I'm very sorry for your loss. Loud Willy! Lol! Great name, meezes are very loud mouthed but they purr like an engine, it's very therapeutic. This Sooty character is very purry, furry and I rescued him too. Glad you are a cat lady too. Xxx

Jerry P, and Josh Hernry, I've heard of him, thanks Dwight luv for the links.

Here's my Poppy who I rescued too. I can't believe she's still gone. I used in read to her in bed.

2017_01_20_22_32_24(2).jpg

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To remove the screw from the eyelet, use an abrasive cutoff wheel in a dremel, and cut  a slot through the eyelet into the screw. Put a flat blade screw driver into the slot you cut and give it a twist to open up the eyelet.

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This repair has been discussed before on Maestronet.  The bow specialists will use a high speed dental drill set-up with carbide burr to cut the steel screw in half (in the mortise).   That way, the piece with the brass eyelet can be removed.  That leaves you with the rusted screw stuck in the lower end of the wood (I am assuming it is rusted into place).  Maybe the screw will move so it can be pulled out.  Otherwise, soak, in vinegar to loosen rust and then pull out the screw.  

I sense you want to do this yourself.  So, get some carbide dental drill bits, insert into Dremel and see if you can cut the screw.

regards

Mike D

 

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34 minutes ago, Mike_Danielson said:

This repair has been discussed before on Maestronet.  The bow specialists will use a high speed dental drill set-up with carbide burr to cut the steel screw in half (in the mortise).   That way, the piece with the brass eyelet can be removed.  That leaves you with the rusted screw stuck in the lower end of the wood (I am assuming it is rusted into place).  Maybe the screw will move so it can be pulled out.  Otherwise, soak, in vinegar to loosen rust and then pull out the screw.  

I sense you want to do this yourself.  So, get some carbide dental drill bits, insert into Dremel and see if you can cut the screw.

regards

Mike D

 

That'll work too. However you do it, the idea is to split the eyelet open  and relieve the pressure on the threads, allowing the screw to be removed.

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Thanks Mike and Bill luvs. I will have a go at that. My problem is that I am searching fomu tools, bits, bobs odds and ends, because of having work done in my house, so I had everything in boxes. So cannot find the things I need, like sooo many dremel ends and then Irush, don't prepare, as I used to by getting everything I need or may need, clsmpings, preperation as you all know is so important rather than fanny around.

See, that partially destroyed eyelet screw moves sideways, hence, needing a willing victim with hands to trust me to hold with pliers, as I drill using your tips of how to do it, get that damned eyelet screw out of the situation. Once that has been exhumed from causing more damage to the outer edges of the mortice, then drilling v carefully into that screw will be about do able.

The less damage from my idiocy and gung ho anger is to listen to you who know. Ta luvs.

Also, Thanks for putting up with me. I've been really ill and violent ex. Broke my arm 4 times, my hip smashed. Thanks for your help xxx

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