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Andreas Preuss

Cello acoustics?

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I find the amount of research done on violin acoustics almost mind disturbing. 

BUT What about cello acoustics? I only remember that there was a German researcher before WW2 (I think his name was Backhaus) who looked into something. (I think he was the guy who applied metal strips to the surface to measure vibrations, because holograms were not invented yet) 

At least I never heard from a cello maker that they work with tap tones (how nice!) 

But maybe I missed somewhere THE big discussion?

 

 

 

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There has been a small group of cello makers at the VSA acoustics workshop each year. I haven´t been there in some years now, however. There is an article about the Double Bass in the Springer book on Stringed musical instruments written by Askenfeldt, who also is an amateur DB player. He has retired from the university now.

There is also a chapter on Cellos there, written by Bynum and Rossing. 

There are also at least one article on FEA on cello bridges by the late jet engine engineer Oliver Rodgers in the CASJ. (CAtgut Acoustical Society Journal). Also Cloin Gough have been modeling the cello bridge in FEA. 

I think the community on celloes are a bit more reluctant to sharing their findings open than some of the violin researchers are. Attending the VSA acoustics workshop is a good way to get a grasp on what goes on behind and opn the scene of instrument acoustics and -making research. There might be opportunities in Europe as well now, possibly related to the french IRCAM. 

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I would not think "cello acoustics" is fundamentally different from violin. Learning to understand the physics of the violin will help a lot with understanding the cello.

I.e: I think  I kind of understand that the cello wolf note is an issue with the B1+ mode.

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5 hours ago, Salve Håkedal said:

I would not think "cello acoustics" is fundamentally different from violin. Learning to understand the physics of the violin will help a lot with understanding the cello.

I.e: I think  I kind of understand that the cello wolf note is an issue with the B1+ mode.

My understanding is that the ribs play a much larger role in cello/double bass than they do in a violin. This intuitively makes sense, but there is probably more alike than not alike among the four instruments.

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6 hours ago, David Burgess said:

I do too, but it is not a stand-alone factor. It is taken in combination with many other things.

Not so much different from violin making.

From my past experience I found it always better to listen to the ring of a cello plate than the pitch.

But maybe I should put it like this: Things to avoid in violin making (in terms of sound) look different to those in cello making, or not?

Edited by Andreas Preuss
Addendum

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6 hours ago, Salve Håkedal said:

I would not think "cello acoustics" is fundamentally different from violin. Learning to understand the physics of the violin will help a lot with understanding the cello.

I.e: I think  I kind of understand that the cello wolf note is an issue with the B1+ mode.

Don't disagree but for the fine tuning I think there are things you can't translate directly from violin making.

in cello making you have a greater variety of models. For example I wouldn't be sure if the same tap tones make sense on a goffriller model versus a Montagnana model. 

By experience in restoration  I can say also that theneck seems to play a bigger role than in violin making. Not only the angle of the neck but also its total stiffness.

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2 hours ago, Joey Naeger said:

My understanding is that the ribs play a much larger role in cello/double bass than they do in a violin. This intuitively makes sense, but there is probably more alike than not alike among the four instruments.

That's one point I think is absolutely correct and applies to violas as well. 

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8 hours ago, Anders Buen said:

There has been a small group of cello makers at the VSA acoustics workshop each year. I haven´t been there in some years now, however. There is an article about the Double Bass in the Springer book on Stringed musical instruments written by Askenfeldt, who also is an amateur DB player. He has retired from the university now.

There is also a chapter on Cellos there, written by Bynum and Rossing. 

There are also at least one article on FEA on cello bridges by the late jet engine engineer Oliver Rodgers in the CASJ. (CAtgut Acoustical Society Journal). Also Cloin Gough have been modeling the cello bridge in FEA. 

I think the community on celloes are a bit more reluctant to sharing their findings open than some of the violin researchers are. Attending the VSA acoustics workshop is a good way to get a grasp on what goes on behind and opn the scene of instrument acoustics and -making research. There might be opportunities in Europe as well now, possibly related to the french IRCAM. 

Somehow I think people who make almost exclusively cellos have a different attitude (might be my subjective distorted view)

Because I am working in Japan I am a little far from those discussion events the reason why I find the MN community of a big help. (Besides it is not that I can't speak Japanese and wouldn't be able to understand discussions which are taking place here. There are almost no discussions or information share going on.)

Thanks for mentioning the existing articles. I will see what I can dig out and what is actually useful. 

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