Collin-Mezin

[Potter]

We have two Collin-Mezins on trial from 2 dealers for my daughter to try. Both labeled

Ch. J.B. Collin-Mezin, one 1908, one 1910.

The 1908 violin has a desperate serial #5102.

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Potter

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Wait... let me put the popcorn on...

[Wood Butcher]

2 hours ago, Potter said:

We have two Collin-Mezins on trial from 2 dealers for my daughter to try. Both labeled

Ch. J.B. Collin-Mezin, one 1908, one 1910.

The 1908 violin has a desperate serial #5102.

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

The best one to go for, is the one which sounds best, or that you like playing the most. Condition obviously is an important factor. I would imagine that both will be made from nice materials. Are they the same model?
Tone is not really a deciding factor for future trade in, and I would never buy something I didn't like, just because I thought it may have some perceived extra value down the road, which may not be the case in reality.

As no one here will be able to play or hear them, any replies you get will be of very limited use I think, and probably heavily biased.

[Potter]

I posted on separate thread that it is daughters 

first full size, likely if she went on to a performance degree she might need a better violin hence the value question. I understand 

the limitations of the discussion, just looking to be educated about Colin-Mezin. I believe these were made by the son and I think this is the very end of the period that is valued highly. But just a parent....

They both have very good sound compared to the range we have been looking at.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

1 hour ago, Potter said:

the limitations of the discussion, just looking to be educated about Colin-Mezin. I believe these were made by the son and I think this is the very end of the period that is valued highly. But just a parent....

 

There have been many discussions concerning this shop's output on this board over the last two decades.  Here's a current discussion in which the subject was mentioned (down the thread a ways).

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/344449-budget-around-35000-euros-what-violin-can-i-get/

If you'd like to read the content of other discussions about the workshop, try a search on the site or try a google search for the maker including "maestronet" and you'll get something like this: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=maestronet+collin-mezin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Post 1900 Collin-Mezin instruments are not all that similar to those made a decade or three before the turn of the century.  The 20th century output is varied... but some of the instruments are quite serviceable.  If the dealer (or dealers)  have not supplied you with enough information to make, what you feel, is a well informed decision, try getting a second opinion from a qualified luthier that has the opportunity to actually examine the instruments in question.  Condition can be almost as/as important as authenticity in this price range.

BTW: Something I don't think was mentioned, or not often mentioned, in past discussions: The Collin-Mazin shop of the 19th century was also well thought of by a number of French 'cellists, and C-M 'cellos still trade for more, sometimes well more, than double what the violins do.

Popcorn is done.  

 

[Blank face]

3 hours ago, Potter said:

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

Regarding resale value the condition should be considered very well, cracks, repairs and varnish.

[The Violin Beautiful]

3 hours ago, Potter said:

We have two Collin-Mezins on trial from 2 dealers for my daughter to try. Both labeled

Ch. J.B. Collin-Mezin, one 1908, one 1910.

The 1908 violin has a desperate serial #5102.

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

Make sure any violin you buy in that range comes with a certificate from one of the best experts. Authenticity and condition are going to affect your trade-in value the most. 

[jacobsaunders]

4 hours ago, Potter said:

We have two Collin-Mezins on trial from 2 dealers for my daughter to try. Both labeled

Ch. J.B. Collin-Mezin, one 1908, one 1910.

The 1908 violin has a desperate serial #5102.

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

I think that this is a fine example of the famous stupid question, since there is no chance for pt. Maestroneters to judge the condition of the two different instruments, or indeed their authenticity. I get fed up of people ringing up and asking me what this or that is worth, and invariably answer that that depends on if it is one or not. Also I have scant respect for people who judge violins that they haven't seen.

 

I wish Jeffrey a good appetite!

[Jeffrey Holmes]

23 minutes ago, The Violin Beautiful said:

Make sure any violin you buy in that range comes with a certificate from one of the best experts. Authenticity and condition are going to affect your trade-in value the most. 

Not sure I'd go quite that far... I have never advised someone approach Charles Beare for a C-M certificate... especially a 20th century one  

I would suggest, if a certificate were desired (questionable if the instrument in this range is correct), and the shop selling the instrument was not qualified to issue one (the shop is responsible for sorting things out if a mistake is made), an expert experienced with (qualified) to identify this shop's instruments be sought out.  C-M instruments are pretty easy to ID once you've seen even a limited number of them... locating a suitable expert with a good reputation shouldn't be all that difficult.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I wish Jeffrey a good appetite!

Thank you Jacob!  

 

[Potter]

3 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I think that this is a fine example of the famous stupid question, since there is no chance for pt. Maestroneters to judge the condition of the two different instruments, or indeed their authenticity. I get fed up of people ringing up and asking me what this or that is worth, and invariably answer that that depends on if it is one or not. Also I have scant respect for people who judge violins that they haven't seen.

 

I wish Jeffrey a good appetite!

Hmm. Didn’t ring you up. Didn’t ask worth, 

just things a non expert could look at 

min choosing between a couple violins by the 

same maker. :/

[Potter]

Thanks for the links, Jeffrey, helpful.

[JohnCockburn]

4 hours ago, Potter said:

We have two Collin-Mezins on trial from 2 dealers for my daughter to try. Both labeled

Ch. J.B. Collin-Mezin, one 1908, one 1910.

The 1908 violin has a desperate serial #5102.

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

Hopefully, it won't be the "right" sort of C-M when you buy it, and the "wrong" sort when you trade it in. 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

16 minutes ago, Potter said:

Hmm. Didn’t ring you up. Didn’t ask worth, 

just things a non expert could look at 

min choosing between a couple violins by the 

same maker. :/

"Thanks for the links, Jeffrey, helpful."

My pleasure!

Same workshop, to be more precise.  

Hopefully the question has been answered, as best as it can be.

The difficulty: A non-expert, or one who does not have experience with the instruments in question, will not be able to discern much about the relative (compared to the output as a whole) quality of the instrument, be reliable in determining condition (several of us here can pretty much erase damage when it comes to a normal, and sometimes es trained, eye... (you'd have to know where to look on the inside), or authenticity (same requirements of the first two subjects).  

We don't know (and probably shouldn't know) who the selling dealer(s) is/are, so we can't offer advice concerning reputation.

Again, if you don't have enough information to make an informed decision, see someone trustworthy for a second opinion.

[deans]

Any of the various CMs could be a perfectly fine instrument within its price range. You just have to trust that your dealer knows his stuff and is not too optimistic.

As far as future value/trade in goes, cant think of any risk or advantage compared to anything else. Except in some areas people like French violins more than many others

[GeorgeH]

5 hours ago, Potter said:

Anything I should look for regarding value for future trade in besides tone? 

Tone has nothing to do with past, current, or future value.

Once more, violins are priced according objective attributes such as:

- Maker or workshop
- Condition
- Appearance
- Model
- Geographic origin
- Age
- Provenance

Not tone.

[deans]

I dont agree completely about tone. Savy dealers know good playing qualites and might not take a clunker, of any type, into their shop.

[Potter]

I feel both dealers are reputable, and decent folks. The prices on these are in the lower range I can find for CMs 

Just to further irritate, we also like the sound of a 1937 Chipot. We have 7 violins at home for the next few days, teachers will listen. 

Thanks for patience with my admitted naïveté slash ignorance. Any questions about pottery I’m here with hopefully helpful expertise .

 

[pjham]

http://www.luthiers-mirecourt.com/documentation.htm#Documentation

If you haven't looked already, you may find this site with old catalogues interesting.

[Rue]

23 minutes ago, Potter said:

...

Thanks for patience with my admitted naïveté slash ignorance. Any questions about pottery I’m here with hopefully helpful expertise .

 

Ah! No relation to Harry Potter then! 

...

...

...

[Wood Butcher]

5 minutes ago, Rue said:

Ah! No relation to Harry Potter then! 

...

...

...

Ha ha ha 

[Jeffrey Holmes]

1 hour ago, GeorgeH said:

Tone has nothing to do with past, current, or future value.

It might have something to do with appeal, however... especially so in this price range.

[PhilipKT]

3 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

 

There have been many discussions concerning this shop's output on this board over the last two decades.  Here's a current discussion in which the subject was mentioned (down the thread a ways).

https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/344449-budget-around-35000-euros-what-violin-can-i-get/

If you'd like to read the content of other discussions about the workshop, try a search on the site or try a google search for the maker including "maestronet" and you'll get something like this: https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=maestronet+collin-mezin&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Post 1900 Collin-Mezin instruments are not all that similar to those made a decade or three before the turn of the century.  The 20th century output is varied... but some of the instruments are quite serviceable.  If the dealer (or dealers)  have not supplied you with enough information to make, what you feel, is a well informed decision, try getting a second opinion from a qualified luthier that has the opportunity to actually examine the instruments in question.  Condition can be almost as/as important as authenticity in this price range.

BTW: Something I don't think was mentioned, or not often mentioned, in past discussions: The Collin-Mazin shop of the 19th century was also well thought of by a number of French 'cellists, and C-M 'cellos still trade for more, sometimes well more, than double what the violins do.

Popcorn is done.  

 

My orchestra stand partner has a splendid CM cello from 1910-ish.

its a wonderful instrument and I don’t think he has any interest in getting another.

A good CM violin might well satisfy your daughter’s needs for the foreseeable future.

[Violadamore]

45 minutes ago, Rue said:

Ah! No relation to Harry Potter then! 

...

...

...

LIKE. 

[GeorgeH]

1 hour ago, deans said:

Savy dealers know good playing qualites and might not take a clunker, of any type, into their shop.

Dealers buy and sell violins that aren't even set-up or playable all the time, but they nevertheless know how to price them.

11 minutes ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

It might have something to do with appeal, however... especially so in this price range.

Dealers that I have spoken with about it say that is next to impossible to predict what tone a particular customer will prefer when they walk in the door.

I also doubt that a customer try to sell a violin to a dealer is going to get a higher compensation for it by raving about its tone.