Curtis Institute hires Cozen O’Connor to investigate sexual abuse claims

[AtlVcl]

Some people will believe anyone wearing a skirt; they're usually called liberal Democrats, perfectly willing to dismiss the presumed innocence in force in the American court system.

First, she <famously> debuts half-dressed in lieu of talent, then she makes accusations against a famous violinist who, as would happen, is incapable of defense. 

How convenient. Sounds a lot like a classical "attention seeker."

Miss St. John may be late to feminism, but curiously just in time for #MeToo. Discuss amongst yourselves.

[l33tplaya]

On 11/7/2019 at 8:47 PM, AtlVcl said:

This is old "news." Jascha Brodsky was almost 90 yrs old at the time of the allegations against  him, and Lara St. John is no "accomplished violinist"; she's best known for album covers where she's only half dressed.

 

What is it with you victim blaming/shaming? And deliberate mis-statement of facts? This is the same sh*t you tried to pull in the other column, and we won't stand for it here.  You misinterpreted  - on purpose - the article referenced in the other post, which shows that she did report it before, that the act of reporting was substantiated, and basically you are acting like a troll. 

We should stop responding to AtlVcl.  

[A. Strelnikov-Resch]

On 11/8/2019 at 10:23 PM, Stephen Fine said:

Yeah.  Shame on 14 year old Lara St. John.  SHAME ON HER!

She should have confronted him THEN!  BAD GIRL!

We must protect the sacred memory of her rapist.  After all, he was SUCH a GREAT teacher.

(see, now that's rape humor)

 

PS- the presumption of innocence, while an essential part of the Common Law and trial by jury, needn't operate in everyday life outside the courtroom.  If I see a pattern of behavior, I can form my own opinions using common sense.  It is a pattern that young girls have trouble speaking out against their powerful male abusers.  It is a pattern that power corrupts.  It is a pattern that he raped his students.  So... my logic dictates that Lara St. John is obviously telling the truth, and that old man was a horrible pervert who never should have been allowed to continue teaching at the Curtis Institute.

I think you are to be congratulated for having the courage and moral quality to take a stance against such sort of behavior from a teacher. I did not read the article yet but I am appalled that he was kept on the staff after raping students.

[A. Strelnikov-Resch]

10 hours ago, AtlVcl said:

Some people will believe anyone wearing a skirt; they're usually called liberal Democrats, perfectly willing to dismiss the presumed innocence in force in the American court system.

First, she <famously> debuts half-dressed in lieu of talent, then she makes accusations against a famous violinist who, as would happen, is incapable of defense. 

How convenient. Sounds a lot like a classical "attention seeker."

Miss St. John may be late to feminism, but curiously just in time for #MeToo. Discuss amongst yourselves.

What presumed innocence ? There is no defense when raping a young girls specially when in a position of power. Her talent has nothing to do with this. Stop defending the rapist.

I listened to some videos with her on you tube and I find her very talented. She may not be a good violin player but she is a talented musician.

[Stephen Fine]

17 hours ago, A432 said:

Notwithstanding Mr. Fine's confirmation bias (" It is a pattern that he raped his students.  So... my logic dictates that Lara St. John is obviously telling the truth, and that old man was a horrible pervert who never should have been allowed to continue teaching at the Curtis Institute."), there certainly would have been an investigation.

Barring evidence that there was not one, or that it was corrupt, it was not established that anything had happened to "do something about," and there the matter rests. LSJ gets a self-generated career boost (even negative publicity is still publicity), and Curtis' reputation is blackened still further.

Cancel Culture 101 (a.k.a., psyop).

So, it's your opinion that Lara St. John and the other women quoted in the Inquirer story are lying?  How many women would have to come forward before you agreed that Lara St. John was telling the truth?

What kind of "evidence" are you expecting Lara St. John to come up with, 30 years later?  She reported it at the time. There's corroboration from other former students that he was a creep at the same time.  Are they lying too?

14 hours ago, AtlVcl said:

Some people will believe anyone wearing a skirt; they're usually called liberal Democrats, perfectly willing to dismiss the presumed innocence in force in the American court system.

First, she <famously> debuts half-dressed in lieu of talent, then she makes accusations against a famous violinist who, as would happen, is incapable of defense. 

How convenient. Sounds a lot like a classical "attention seeker."

Miss St. John may be late to feminism, but curiously just in time for #MeToo. Discuss amongst yourselves.

"Debuts half-dressed".  Her debut album COVER ART in 1996 was not her debut.  She was 25 years old.  She debuted as a little girl in the 80s.  She had already had a soloist's career by the time she released that album.  But, please, continue with your learned commentary.

And please, tell us more about how using sex to sell is the sign of an "attention seeker" not the sign of a record label wanting to make money.

[violinnewb]

It is so easy to take one side over another in these types of cases because the assault in question didn't happen to us.  On that note, opinions will be all over the spectrum and tempers will flare.  I will come forward and say that I too have been a victim.  Not rape, but a person of power trying to use that power against me if I did not accept sexual advances.  I felt shame and did not come forward until many years later, and even then, only to a select few people.  

Here are some things to consider:

1. in the 80's, there was a huge stigma regarding the reporting of sex assaults for women.  There still is, as evidenced by this thread.  Coming out years later can mean several things, but for me, it took time for me to be okay with myself to come forward.

2. St. John, around the time of this incident, was a 14 year old female who knew nothing of the real world outside of a decade of being in the classical music bubble.

3. The album cover defense is non-sense.  Go ask Madonna, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, or anyone who has posed on any media medium if the intent was to be assaulted.  Mutter and Akiko-Meyers almost exclusively wear strapless tops.  Pretty sure they aren't asking for anyone to assault them.  I don't think any human being should be shamed on appearance.

4. Again, age matters not.  The power and authority one has, even in the form of pre-eminence from a 90 year-old, and using that power and authority to create duress-like situations is the issue.  

5. Last but not least, any sexual assault against a minor (and I'm not specifically referring to rape) is usually a strict liability offense.  This usually means, intent on the actor doesn't matter, consent doesn't matter, most defenses will not work.

[martin swan]

26 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

It is so easy to take one side over another in these types of cases because the assault in question didn't happen to us.  On that note, opinions will be all over the spectrum and tempers will flare.  I will come forward and say that I too have been a victim.  Not rape, but a person of power trying to use that power against me if I did not accept sexual advances.  I felt shame and did not come forward until many years later, and even then, only to a select few people.  

Here are some things to consider:

1. in the 80's, there was a huge stigma regarding the reporting of sex assaults for women.  There still is, as evidenced by this thread.  Coming out years later can mean several things, but for me, it took time for me to be okay with myself to come forward.

2. St. John, around the time of this incident, was a 14 year old female who knew nothing of the real world outside of a decade of being in the classical music bubble.

3. The album cover defense is non-sense.  Go ask Madonna, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, or anyone who has posed on any media medium if the intent was to be assaulted.  Mutter and Akiko-Meyers almost exclusively wear strapless tops.  Pretty sure they aren't asking for anyone to assault them.  I don't think any human being should be shamed on appearance.

4. Again, age matters not.  The power and authority one has, even in the form of pre-eminence from a 90 year-old, and using that power and authority to create duress-like situations is the issue.  

5. Last but not least, any sexual assault against a minor (and I'm not specifically referring to rape) is usually a strict liability offense.  This usually means, intent on the actor doesn't matter, consent doesn't matter, most defenses will not work.

Thanks for this very measured and thoughtful contribution, and for being willing to share your own experience.

 

[Rue]

1 hour ago, A. Strelnikov-Resch said:

...

I listened to some videos with her on you tube and I find her very talented. She may not be a good violin player but she is a talented musician.

OT, but I continue to be appalled with comments that "she may not be a good violin player"...

26 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

...

3. The album cover defense is non-sense.  Go ask Madonna, Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber, or anyone who has posed on any media medium if the intent was to be assaulted.  Mutter and Akiko-Meyers almost exclusively wear strapless tops.  Pretty sure they aren't asking for anyone to assault them.  I don't think any human being should be shamed on appearance.

...

She was assaulted at 14. She was a child. The album cover, which REALLY isn't even remotely "scandalous" was some years later. She was an adult then and in charge of her own decisions.

Kudos to her for taking the time and being brave enough to make Bach "cool" and of interest to a younger audience - instead of leaving Bach to the dusty tenets of  pompous old men.

[Herman West]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

OT, but I continue to be appalled with comments that "she may not be a good violin player"...

She was assaulted at 14. She was a child. The album cover, which REALLY isn't even remotely "scandalous" was some years later. She was an adult then and in charge of her own decisions.

 

These guys who are attacking Lara St John here keep referring to this album cover, as if her professor's heinous actions ten years before are somehow justified by that image. 

This continued shaming of LSJ because of that cover image is really creepy.

[A. Strelnikov-Resch]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

OT, but I continue to be appalled with comments that "she may not be a good violin player"...

 

I do not understand why you are "appalled" . Some people here want to connect how well she plays with her accusations. That is a non-sense. Yes, she does not play that accurate. That does not mean she is lying or that her trauma is less. What then ? Only good playing people can complain ?

[A. Strelnikov-Resch]

4 hours ago, Stephen Fine said:

So, it's your opinion that Lara St. John and the other women quoted in the Inquirer story are lying?  How many women would have to come forward before you agreed that Lara St. John was telling the truth?

What kind of "evidence" are you expecting Lara St. John to come up with, 30 years later?  She reported it at the time. There's corroboration from other former students that he was a creep at the same time.  Are they lying too?

 

LIke Mr. l33tplaya  wisely said it is best not to reply or engage these people who chose not to believe. Many times these predators are very calculated and ( real case from real european music school !!! ) you see 50 students claim he was  spotless for each student claim he was not. AT the end the victim looks like a lier and has life and career destroyed.

[A432]

And please, tell us more about how using sex to sell is the sign of an "attention seeker" not the sign of a record label wanting to make money.

In order for your allegation that the record label was behind this to be plausible, you would first need some evidence that classical music album sales -- in this age of effortless copying/file sharing -- are profitable at all. Take as much time as you need.

It is far more likely that the (periodically revived) "rape" controversy is a follow up on the photo to generate clicks, as people who have never heard of her but are curious drive her hit counts through the roof.

The name of the game is name-face recognition ; this is the foundation which can be parlayed into future income. Without it, she's a nobody. With it, she's a somebody.

Don't be surprised if the next phase is appearances on talk shows.

If all goes well, eventually she'll be famous for being famous, and won't have to play at all.

[Herman West]

Cynical.

[martin swan]

5 minutes ago, A432 said:

 

 

In order for your allegation that the record label was behind this to be plausible, you would first need some evidence that classical music album sales -- in this age of effortless copying/file sharing -- are profitable at all. Take as much time as you need.

It is far more likely that the (periodically revived) "rape" controversy is a follow up on the photo to generate clicks, as people who have never heard of her but are curious drive her hit counts through the roof.

The name of the game is name-face recognition ; this is the foundation which can be parlayed into future income. Without it, she's a nobody. With it, she's a somebody.

Don't be surprised if the next phase is appearances on talk shows.

If all goes well, eventually she'll be famous for being famous, and won't have to play at all.

Areshole

[Rue]

14 minutes ago, A. Strelnikov-Resch said:

I do not understand why you are "appalled" . Some people here want to connect how well she plays with her accusations. That is a non-sense. Yes, she does not play that accurate. That does not mean she is lying or that her trauma is less. What then ? Only good playing people can complain ?

I said it was OT - and I'm appalled because she is an excellent violinist.  

Who is deciding that she's inaccurate?

Unless someone can play - and provide proof - that they are "better", leave that kind of judgement/personal opinion out of the discourse.

Back on topic: No child asks to be sexually abused. And - even in some fantasy-land - should a fiction-writer create a child character asking to be abused, I hope said author would also make it clear that an adult should never take advantage of the situation. End of story.

 

[A432]

Areshole

That's "arsehole," I think. (Not current on my British euphemisms).

I wish I could live in the Sir Walter Scott world you live in, where right and virtue are inseparable from the emotional responses they trigger, to the point where they're virtual synonyms. (Fiction is indeed a powerful shaper of weltanschauung).

This makes me angry = this is evil.

[Rue]

10 minutes ago, A432 said:

...

The name of the game is name-face recognition ; this is the foundation which can be parlayed into future income. Without it, she's a nobody. With it, she's a somebody.

Don't be surprised if the next phase is appearances on talk shows.

If all goes well, eventually she'll be famous for being famous, and won't have to play at all.

What are you talking about?

She already is "famous". She's an active, successful, global performer. She has her own record label. She's 48 years old and busy with her career.

If she "needed" more fame/notoriety why choose this as a venue when there are a kazillion others? For example, maybe she could marry her iguana. That would make the news.

How about this: she's doing her part to make sure no other children are sexually abused by the adults that should be working hard at keeping them safe 

[Rue]

No one has to "like" her. No one has to think she's "good". That is all entirely irrelevant.

[martin swan]

10 minutes ago, A432 said:

 

 

That's "arsehole," I think. (Not current on my British euphemisms).

 

I do beg your pardon, quite right ...

ARSEHOLE

Your postings are as tawdry and mendacious as they are confused. 

[A432]

You do realise, of course, that posting "You're a stinky old poopy head" in place of a rebuttal begs the issue. (Imagine someone blurting this out in a board meeting and remaining employed !) From an adult, there seem to be two plausible explanations which would account for it.

1) Asymmetric development. E.g., exceptional ability in one area can coexist with arrested development is another/others. Surprisingly common in academe, where a PhD can have the emotional age of a primary schooler. (Mozart for a poster child example).

2) "Virtue" Signaling -- People depending on the good opinion of others (like politicians) are obliged to mirror the attitudes and opinions of their patrons in order to remain popular. So while you very well might (and, I suspect, almost certainly do) personally know better, acknowledging this would be economic suicide, as a large part of your client pool would react like jilted sweethearts.

Far from disliking you, I've frequently fantasized visiting your shop, annonymously, , and standing you to a pint or two after closing time. Absent the Maestronet baggage that's accumulated, I expect we'd get on.

PS : After posting the poem a few months back, I'm surprised you're still reviling me for what I've openly acknowledged.   https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/343502-acclaimed-violinist-says-she-was-sexually-assaulted-by-her-renowned-teacher-at-the-curtis-institute/page/4/&tab=comments#comment-857677

 

 

[Stephen Fine]

18 hours ago, A432 said:

In order for your allegation that the record label was behind this to be plausible, you would first need some evidence that classical music album sales -- in this age of effortless copying/file sharing -- are profitable at all. Take as much time as you need.

The album in question is from 1996 so maybe you need to research the history of File Sharing.  Take as long as you need.

17 hours ago, A432 said:

You do realise, of course, that posting "You're a stinky old poopy head" in place of a rebuttal begs the issue. (Imagine someone blurting this out in a board meeting and remaining employed !) From an adult, there seem to be two plausible explanations which would account for it.

1) Asymmetric development. E.g., exceptional ability in one area can coexist with arrested development is another/others. Surprisingly common in academe, where a PhD can have the emotional age of a primary schooler. (Mozart for a poster child example).

Go read a Mozart biography, go read some of Mozart's letters to family and friends, go listen to some of Mozart's operas.  I'm just absolutely stunned that someone could be so ignorant but post with such confidence.  You really don't even know what you don't know.  Pseudo-intellectual.  Keep trying to convince us.

 

[A432]

By "us" you mean the choir of identically-programmed snowflakes  you preach to.

In your imagination, you're probably Braveheart or somebody like that -- a hero of the Virtue Wars like GretaThunberg but without the PR support (a fantasy that probably excites you).

To normal people, just another if the True Believers that infest the world, pretending they've inherited the mantles of the Biblical Prophets. And thoroughly tedious.

[Stephen Fine]

42 minutes ago, A432 said:

By "us" you mean the choir of identically-programmed snowflakes  you preach to.

In your imagination, you're probably Braveheart or somebody like that -- a hero of the Virtue Wars like GretaThunberg but without the PR support (a fantasy that probably excites you).

To normal people, just another if the True Believers that infest the world, pretending they've inherited the mantles of the Biblical Prophets. And thoroughly tedious.

And no part of that addressed how wrong you've been about every single thing so far.

Care to try without the ad hominem attacks?

[l33tplaya]

10 hours ago, Rue said:

No one has to "like" her. No one has to think she's "good". That is all entirely irrelevant.

+1

[crazy jane]

5 hours ago, A432 said:

To normal people, just another if the True Believers that infest the world, 

You're "normal"?