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shunkpenn

Frog Restoration Advice

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Looking for some advice on best practices in this type of repair.  The frog belongs to a pretty nice stick so I would like to make sure I do this right.

 I marked in the photos in the two areas that need attention. One is a hairline crack the other is a slight chip. Much more evident in the photos then under the naked eye. Thanks for the help. 

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66CEC453-1324-4564-AA52-C6B499A2A117.jpeg

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I'm not an expert, but if I had that to do I'd use this. It has a thick consistency, it's black (duh), and I've used it for situations like yours with great results. I believe that it's reversible too.

 

IMG_1173.PNG

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37 minutes ago, MarkBouquet said:

I'm not an expert, but if I had that to do I'd use this. It has a thick consistency, it's black (duh), and I've used it for situations like yours with great results. I believe that it's reversible too.

 

IMG_1173.PNG

I think the only problem with CA glues and finishes is that they tend to be shinier than the surrounding wood. 

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To fix the missing bit of ebony, I would clean the surrounding wood and metal well, over-fill the gap with ebony dust and thin superglue and trim off the excess.  To fix the crack, I would try to clean it out so that it would close, then glue it with thin superglue.  If I couldn't get the crack to completely close, I would over-fill it with ebony dust and superglue then trim off the excess.

I find that a crack repair like this can be completely invisible if the crack can be closed before gluing it.  And an ebony dust and superglue fill like this can be invisible enough that I would never notice it if it weren't pointed out to me.

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1 hour ago, Brad Dorsey said:

To fix the missing bit of ebony, I would clean the surrounding wood and metal well, over-fill the gap with ebony dust and thin superglue and trim off the excess.  To fix the crack, I would try to clean it out so that it would close, then glue it with thin superglue.  If I couldn't get the crack to completely close, I would over-fill it with ebony dust and superglue then trim off the excess.

I find that a crack repair like this can be completely invisible if the crack can be closed before gluing it.  And an ebony dust and superglue fill like this can be invisible enough that I would never notice it if it weren't pointed out to me.

Has anybody had any luck with Laser Bond?  I know some people that use it for top cracks in guitars.

https://www.asseenontvpros.com/Lazer-Bond-USA--As-Seen-On-TV_p_45.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwlovtBRBrEiwAG3XJ-_QxnAKx3q-xmDoeka0Up8kTRlVVa5DTZrGRPM_2TKYe_NN0z4e0KRoCl1gQAvD_BwE

i wonder how it would work to mix ebony dust with this product and rub it into the crack?  This product only sets-up under the blue light so there is plenty of time for mixing and matching. 

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2 hours ago, shunkpenn said:

Has anybody had any luck with Laser Bond?

 

FWIW I bought it recently to fix hard plastic - crap. So, one of the claims is suspect (in my hands).

I think one problem may be the lack of UV penetration to cure the adhesive inside a crack.

 

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28 minutes ago, Janito said:

FWIW I bought it recently to fix hard plastic - crap. So, one of the claims is suspect (in my hands).

I think one problem may be the lack of UV penetration to cure the adhesive inside a crack.

 

Janito

You are correct...the penetration of the UV light is critical. I’ve used a couple different brands of the same product and they vary in results. I have used it on porcelain with great results.  
 

I think what I may do is try it on another frog that I have with cracks and see how it works out. I believe the product is very similar to bonding agents that are used in dentistry.  

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To fill the chip and not have it as shiny as a repair using ebony dust (which I never use) and ca glue, I use an ebony crumble. The crumble I use with good results is made from the shavings left over from shaping a peg . Over fill the chip with ebony crumble, cover it with a bit of cling wrap, apply finger pressure to the wrap and crumble and soak it with ca glue. Now you can file the repair to shape and finish the repair.

With crumble you get more wood product in the chip and not as much ca glue as you get using dust which makes it shine.

The crack can be glued together by pressing it together and using a good quality ca glue after removing the pearl slide. For both repairs clean the chip and crack with acetone to remove any oils or waxes.

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1 hour ago, FenwickG said:

...after removing the pearl slide...

I'm glad you mentioned this because I forgot to.  You have to remove the slide before gluing the crack.  If you don't remove it, you will glue it in.  Then destroying it will be the only way to remove it.

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Thanks for the mention Dwight.

First off, you need to figure out why the crack is there and what caused it; this is not the typical place for a rail crack.  Once you have that nailed down, a good quality thin CA would work very well.  As far as the chip, I agree with others here that a fill is most appropriate, as opposed to adding whole wood.  The method FenwickG outlines is on the right track, although I would also add lampblack to the equation to cut down on some of the gloss.  I prefer to use the optical epoxy in these situations as it allows a great deal of solids to adhesive because of the thinness of the mix, I also like the fact that the gloss is a bit more controllable.  

There are ways to get these disappear-ish, but they would be more invasive.

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3 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

 I prefer to use the optical epoxy in these situations

Jerry could you recommend a brand of optical epoxy? By optical do you mean clear? Thanks 

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6 hours ago, scordatura said:

 

Jerry could you recommend a brand of optical epoxy? By optical do you mean clear? Thanks 

By “optical” I mean made for glueing optics.  Because of it’s refractive index appropriate for ensues, and low viscosity it is especially appropriate for tortoise fill......the low viscosity helps in this context.

https://www.epotek.com/site/administrator/components/com_products/assets/files/Style_Uploads/301-2.pdf

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I would take a careful look at the gap between metal slide and ebony. If it's filled with dirt and tarnish like it appears to be at the photo, the slide often has lost it's connection with the wood and needs to be reglued (after cleaning the gap with a thin blade, acetone or the like). Sometimes the whole slide comes off and has to be refitted. In this case it's possible to replace the missing chip with a "whole" piece, otherwise I'm using thin fine splinters made of ebony shavings, but maybe that's the same like the "crumbles". Colouring works also well with edding.

 

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4 hours ago, Blank face said:

I would take a careful look at the gap between metal slide and ebony. If it's filled with dirt and tarnish like it appears to be at the photo, the slide often has lost it's connection with the wood and needs to be reglued (after cleaning the gap with a thin blade, acetone or the like). Sometimes the whole slide comes off and has to be refitted. In this case it's possible to replace the missing chip with a "whole" piece, otherwise I'm using thin fine splinters made of ebony shavings, but maybe that's the same like the "crumbles". Colouring works also well with edding.

 

Here is a closer look at the area.   Question...have you or anybody else used melting colored wax compounds into the area for this type of repair. From what I understand, once set, they are nearly as hard as wood and can be blended to match the repair.  I’ve seen it done on furniture with great success. 

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