Tostra

Cello ID

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Hi :-)
I have recently bought this wonderful cello, and I was curious if someone can tell me something about it?
My luthier said when I bought it that he thought it could be Italian, and that it was definitely European, but he wasn't sure what it is.

The date on the label is 1936. My luthier said it might actually be a bit older, but I'm not sure why.
I have tried to resize the pictures for upload, so please ask for better resolution if needed:
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The only way to find out if you have a Seiga cello (I have no idea what one would look like) is to get (at least) another one to compare it with. In the meantime I would distrust celli with grubby labels, where one wonders if they wrote 1936 in ball point pen.

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I don't trust the label at all and I'm pretty sure it's not a Siega, so that's not why I bought it. It's an amazing instrument that I absolutely love playing.
I bought it of my luthier, and as I mentioned in the first post, he doesn't know much about it for sure. I simply put up this post to see if someone has an idea of the origin and history of an instrument like this, as I'm not very good at identifying instruments myself. I like building, repairing and playing them, but I don't have enough experience for this type of thing yet.

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55 minutes ago, Tostra said:


I bought it of my luthier, and as I mentioned in the first post, he doesn't know much about it for sure.

If I had sold it to you, I wouldn’t know either. If Butt Joint Jerry had sold it to you I would wonder if it isn’t East European (Hungary for instance)

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1 hour ago, Wood Butcher said:

Must be tough to run a business selling instruments, when they don’t know what they are selling :wacko:

I don't agree. In my opinion good workmanship and high standards is much more important than origin of instruments. He knows that the instrument is in good condition and set up well, then why should it matter who made it?
He does have many instruments with certified makers. But those are way outside of my budget, so as a player I much prefer the great nameless instrument over the decent instrument from a certified maker. This same cello (at the same quality level) would have cost me just about ten times as much if the label was genuine. I would've lost quite a bit of money, yes, but for what? A better label?
Sorry if I seem a bit defensive here, but the guy is an amazing luthier and kind person which I like very much. I'm not trying to find out if this is a "good" cello or discuss my purchase, because I am over the top happy with it and spend a lot of wonderful hours with the instrument. I was simply curious to hear your thoughts on the origin of it.

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Jacobsaunders I was thinking Hungarian as well, as we have a lot of new-ish Hungarian instruments here in Denmark of quite good quality, but the workmanship on this one as well as the varnish just feels... Different? It's more elegant than the hungarian instruments I've played, but it could be.
I have now searched for Ettore Siega instruments, and they actually look surprisingly like mine. The label is exactly the same as well. I know that doesn't matter, and the fact that the year is written in ballpoint pen kind of ruins the illusion :P
But maybe someone have made a very accurate copy?
 

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13 minutes ago, Tostra said:

I don't agree. In my opinion good workmanship and high standards is much more important than origin of instruments. He knows that the instrument is in good condition and set up well, then why should it matter who made it?
He does have many instruments with certified makers. But those are way outside of my budget, so as a player I much prefer the great nameless instrument over the decent instrument from a certified maker. This same cello (at the same quality level) would have cost me just about ten times as much if the label was genuine. I would've lost quite a bit of money, yes, but for what? A better label?
Sorry if I seem a bit defensive here, but the guy is an amazing luthier and kind person which I like very much. I'm not trying to find out if this is a "good" cello or discuss my purchase, because I am over the top happy with it and spend a lot of wonderful hours with the instrument. I was simply curious to hear your thoughts on the origin of it.

Fair enough, I just assumed that people who deal in instruments for a living might have a clearer opinion than European, which currently has around 50 countries.

For what it’s worth, I think the maple is very handsome, and the varnish shows it off well. The condition seems very good, and I can’t help but think it might be rather newer than 1936.

I agree that a bargain can be had from a playing point of view, if one isn’t bothered about chasing names.

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2 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

Fair enough, I just assumed that people who deal in instruments for a living might have a clearer opinion than European, which currently has around 50 countries.

For what it’s worth, I think the maple is very handsome, and the varnish shows it off well. The condition seems very good, and I can’t help but think it might be rather newer than 1936.

I agree that a bargain can be had from a playing point of view, if one isn’t bothered about chasing names.

I agree, it's not very exact. But I still rather want that than someone telling me something more exact without having evidence... I also didn't ask about the origin at all, so he was not avoiding a question or anything. I guess he just felt like telling me about the instrument I was buying.
I think it might indeed be around the age written inside, if not older. The condition is great, but it definitely has some age judging on varnish wear and the look of the wood up close. I would be very surprised if it's later than 1950 or so.
And yes, that back is just to die for :P

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The few scuffs look a bit purposed to me. Although I have never owned an authentic older Italian cello, I do not believe there were purposed scratches. Although it seems like a shallow observation on my part, I have had several fakes that were ruled out due to shallow observation. You could do what I did, and sell it as a contemporary replica, which can fetch a fair sum, especially when compared side-to-side with a newer competitive brand like Haide, Eastman, Etc.

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1 minute ago, Michael H said:

The few scuffs look a bit purposed to me. Although I have never owned an authentic older Italian cello, I do not believe there were purposed scratches. Although it seems like a shallow observation on my part, I have had several fakes that were ruled out due to shallow observation. You could do what I did, and sell it as a contemporary replica, which can fetch a fair sum, especially when compared side-to-side with a newer competitive brand like Haide, Eastman, Etc.

If you are referring to the ones on the upper bout, they seem like bow marks to me. Have made a few myself on cellos during concerts *couch*, but that's just a guess. If you mean the scratches on the sides and stuff, I really have no idea. They don't look intentional to me, but you could make them that way. Maybe someone copied a Siega and added similar scratches, but I don't think it feels like that kind of replica.

I'm not selling this one, btw, I'm just curious. I have had a hard time placing it and thought I would ask more experienced people in here.

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