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Fiddler45

Neck/Scale Length Question

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I am ready to start setting up a fiddle I repaired and am uncertain how to proceed. 

The fingerboard starts about 3mm north of being even with the tip of the volute of the back of the scroll; I am guessing that dead even is considered correct placement? Even being 3mm north of "ideal", the lenghth from nut to body is only 130mm. 

The stop length to the inner f hole notches is about 197mm. Now with the lean of the bridge, I would be over the usual 330mm I usually try for by a couple mm. (I placed a bridge there snd measured from end of board to top of bridge). 

So my question is, would it be best to a), cut a couple mm off the nut end of the fb and have a shorter "neck", b), leave the board alone and risk problems fingering half steps, and also have to place the bridge further north than normal on the body, or c), leave the board, and place the bridge in "normal" position and wind up with a scale of around 333mm? 

And no, I will not choose d), " throw it in the rubbish bin and work on something better". 

:)

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I think I'd have a go at setting it up as built, maybe fudge the bridge and post a bit north and see what you have....

3mm ain't a mile.

Try what you have before doing anything drastic.

Split the difference with bridge [ heck the feet are gonna be 4.5mm wide on their own]

Finish it set it up and use some "wiggle room" experimentation.

I've played fiddles with everything from 327mm to 332mm string length and you'd be surprised how well your ears and fingers together will compensate to make it sound right [intonation].

It's one of the real advantages to No Frets!

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The 130 body stop dimension I would consider the more important one . Being 3 mm north of the  scallop of the pegbox isn't awful if it's not to scooped under there. I seldom on my del Gesu models have 330 for a total string length and often have it more 326. Others may have a different take on it 

 

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3mm is a mile on a violin. If this is for a fiddle player,  it might be fine, but not for a violinist. 

Also, fudging the bridge to compensate for a long neck simply compounds the problem.

3mm off for a guitar is fine, but not a good  violin. 

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6 hours ago, Fiddler45 said:

I am ready to start setting up a fiddle I repaired and am uncertain how to proceed. 

The fingerboard starts about 3mm north of being even with the tip of the volute of the back of the scroll; I am guessing that dead even is considered correct placement? Even being 3mm north of "ideal", the lenghth from nut to body is only 130mm. 

The stop length to the inner f hole notches is about 197mm. Now with the lean of the bridge, I would be over the usual 330mm I usually try for by a couple mm. (I placed a bridge there snd measured from end of board to top of bridge). 

So my question is, would it be best to a), cut a couple mm off the nut end of the fb and have a shorter "neck", b), leave the board alone and risk problems fingering half steps, and also have to place the bridge further north than normal on the body, or c), leave the board, and place the bridge in "normal" position and wind up with a scale of around 333mm? 

And no, I will not choose d), " throw it in the rubbish bin and work on something better". 

:)

I am not sure if I understand your question. If the current neck length is 130, I would fit the bridge at 195

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I am not sure if I understand your question. If the current neck length is 130, I would fit the bridge at 195

Just that the top end of the fingerboard is further toward the peg box (3mm)  than "normal" and that I had heard arguments of whether it was ok to have the bridge too far north/south of the normal mensur as related to tone and structural integrity. 

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7 hours ago, duane88 said:

3mm is a mile on a violin. If this is for a fiddle player,  it might be fine, but not for a violinist. 

Also, fudging the bridge to compensate for a long neck simply compounds the problem.

3mm off for a guitar is fine, but not a good  violin. 

Could you elaborate on why it would be fine for fiddle and not violin? Will it not play easily above say, 3rd position if....which scenario? I guess I don't understand exactly what your advice was to proceed. 

Imo, the 3mm at the nut is the biggest problem...having a potential problem fingering half position. Not worried about intonation in general with a 333mm scale...as Michael pointed out, there are no frets and I (hopefully others also) shouldn't have a problem. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Fiddler45 said:

Just that the top end of the fingerboard is further toward the peg box (3mm)  than "normal" and that I had heard arguments of whether it was ok to have the bridge too far north/south of the normal mensur as related to tone and structural integrity. 

I don’t think that would disturb me at all. If you look at any antique violin with an unchanged original neck, you will find that the fingerboard is always glued on further “North”

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1 hour ago, Fiddler45 said:

...the top end of the fingerboard is further toward the peg box (3mm)  than "normal"...I...heard arguments of whether it was ok to have the bridge too far north/south of the normal mensur as related to tone and structural integrity. 

It will have no effect on structural integrity.  I doubt that it will have any effect on tone.  It will have a slight effect on finger placement on the strings for playing in tune, but I think that most players will adjust their fingering automatically and never notice the difference.

If it were mine, I would leave the fingerboard as it is and place the bridge at the F hole notches as usual.

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Busy day as I finished dressing the board, made a nut, bridge, and post, and finished setting it up.

I left the fb alone and put the bridge just a hair (1mm) north of the f notch. Scale length is ~331 mm. Plays fine and sounds better than I was hoping for as well.

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