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Landolfi

Messori violin

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Just found this violin that came with this bow, signed Arthur Knorr Germany?  The violin has old label Massori, Modena 1908.  Any idea if this is by Massori?

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I cannot comment on the violin, but the bow looks like ordinary student quality. Considering the age, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, however.

The ferrule is silver but the button is nickel and doesn’t appear to fit. The MOP eyelets don’t match and each appears to be more recent. What does the MOP in the slide look like?

 

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Dear Landolfi,

Please show some pictures that help identifying this fiddle. You have been around here long enough to know how. Why did you leave out a frontal view of the scroll? 

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2 minutes ago, Wood Butcher said:

And would you have come to this conclusion without the label?

Yes, based on the finish and the varnish, and the fact that it doesn't look like a German violin, i was led to believe that it's Italian.   But that's just my personal opinion

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Not sure and I'm not an expert, but the corners (which are not clearly shown), bit of a dog nose on the back of the scroll, and the button make me think it's a better grade of Saxon violin.  Where does the scroll fluting end?  I don't know what a Messori should look like though. 

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I’m not sure about the origin of this one, but the delta at the back of the scroll, chamfers and f holes don’t look right compared to the photos Tarisio has for the maker.
 

The recent batch of photos shows the purfling miters pretty well, and they don’t have the long bee stings seen on his other pieces. 

That being said, I’m no expert and haven’t seen an example in person, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

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The fiddles at Tarisio are Messori's later works.   This one is dated 1908, and most of them at Tarisio are after 1920's.   I am no expert for this particular maker, and not sure if his earlier works differ than his later works

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2 hours ago, palousian said:

Not sure and I'm not an expert, but the corners (which are not clearly shown), bit of a dog nose on the back of the scroll, and the button make me think it's a better grade of Saxon violin.  Where does the scroll fluting end?  I don't know what a Messori should look like though. 

Plus one for Saxon, but what do I know, scroll fluting is not to the bitter end, scroll and button look very different between the OP violin and the other example posted and very different to all of the Tarisio examples, and the corners look  as if the violin was BOB  from what I can see. What do the corner blocks look like? 

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3 hours ago, Televet said:

Plus one for Saxon, but what do I know, scroll fluting is not to the bitter end, scroll and button look very different between the OP violin and the other example posted and very different to all of the Tarisio examples, and the corners look  as if the violin was BOB  from what I can see. What do the corner blocks look like? 

How do you corner blocks without opening up the violin?

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1 hour ago, Landolfi said:

How do you corner blocks without opening up the violin?

You look through the f-holes. Also you look if the joint on the ends of the ribs, between upper or lower rib and centre rib is in the middle, or towards the middle rib. Also you look through the f-hole, if the plan view of the corner block would be an approximate right angled triangle or an equilateral one. Also, is the bottom rib one or two pieces?

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This looks like a modified Saxon violin to me. The fluting around the f-holes is very exaggerated as are the edges. The button is poorly shaped.

Looking at the side view the ribs join in the middle and I don't believe a mold was used since the rib corners are so far off parallel.

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2 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

You look through the f-holes. Also you look if the joint on the ends of the ribs, between upper or lower rib and centre rib is in the middle, or towards the middle rib. Also you look through the f-hole, if the plan view of the corner block would be an approximate right angled triangle or an equilateral one. Also, is the bottom rib one or two pieces?

When i looked through the f holes, i am seeing a square/rectangular plate with strip extending north and south from the block.  Apologize for my poor drawing.   This was what i saw.  No triangle

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44 minutes ago, martin swan said:

This looks like a modified Saxon violin to me. The fluting around the f-holes is very exaggerated as are the edges. The button is poorly shaped.

Looking at the side view the ribs join in the middle and I don't believe a mold was used since the rib corners are so far off parallel.

I had high hope for it to be an Italian fiddle. So far more Saxon votes than Italian.  

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For me this is not really a "vote" - look at the rib corners and the scroll details, and above all the shape of the button.

This is a lower grade violin with a badly shaped neck and crude f-holes - and a poorly reglued back seam. A lot of black has been rubbed into the edges and it has a very cheap fingerboard - it has been messed up and relabelled.

I wonder where/why you were expecting to stumble on an unidentified Messori?

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