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jandepora

It is worth to show this bow to Raffin?

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In my experience Raffin doesn't like to certify "Cramer" bows of this type, unless they are clearly by NL Tourte. This one doesn't look much like a Tourte, nor a French bow for that matter, so I think it would just get a shrug from him. 

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4 minutes ago, Michael Appleman said:

In my experience Raffin doesn't like to certify "Cramer" bows of this type, unless they are clearly by NL Tourte. This one doesn't look much like a Tourte, nor a French bow for that matter, so I think it would just get a shrug from him. 

I don't explain my self, sorry.

I am asking what are the people opinion about this bow. Raffin say by mail that the bow is "a bit" interesting and he need to see in person. But I want to know of there is a possibility that this bow could be French, or interesting.

 

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I watched few times the Tarisio conference "L' archet revolutionaire", "French or German Bows for Beethoven; A Political Choice" and "The Tourte Family at the end of 18th century", looking for info for this bow.

I think that all I could say is that it looks germany first part of 19c. I think that it could be from Mittenwald because this kind of cornice seating is bigger than in Markneukirchen and in my bow the cornice seating is big and round. But in a part of the video, Koepp said that this kind of cornice seating is found in other countries, not only germany.

Then I found this picture in Millant 2017 Vichy Encheres auction, and is sold as "Baguette d’archet de violon de l’école de TOURTE"2017-11-29-millant-106-2-archet-violon-epoque-tourte-rec.thumb.jpg.144381f33b525745011f65e8608f9ad4.jpg

It has a cornice seating! ok, it don't say that this is a french bow, but maybe Tourte school is more interesting than Mittenwald bow.

And in 2018 this one is sold with the name of " Intéressant archet de violon de l’école de TOURTE"

2018-12-05-millant-207-1-archet-violon-ecole-tourte-style-nicolas-leonard-1.thumb.jpg.8af92410a308d4f43551528e036d793a.jpg

Then Raffin say in the email that "this bow is a bit interesting but seams very retouched at the frog part of the stick? It is possibly from the Tourte school but it need a good study in our shop."

I wan to know if this bow could worth the price to travel to Paris to show to him in person.

Or at least what is your opinion about this bow.

 

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I think one has to think a bit about what the appellation "Tourte school" means. It really doesn't add much value to a bow, since it just means that the expert can't identify the bow but thinks it shows some awareness of Tourte's models. It does not necessarily mean that the person who made the bow worked with Tourte. I have several bows that Raffin has described or certified as "Tourte school" and they range from a very fine Lupot/Eury type that had lost too many identifying features through wear to certify it as by one specific maker to an ironwood Lagrosse type in the same case to a ca 1770-1780 Kramer type. In each case the bow's value is radically different and based on the quality of the bow itself, so the "Lupot/Eury" was still fairly valuable while the Lagrosse was and is a cheap bow. The fact that Raffin called them "Tourte school" really means nothing at all. As one Paris bowmaker once said, since you can find just about every model of bow that's ever been made in the work of the Tourte brothers at some point, from Peccatte to Tubbs to even Voirin, we are ALL Tourte school in the end!

Your bow does not look French to me, and I think your idea about early 19thc. Mittenwald makes sense, although the button and brass reinforcing collar seem to be a later Markneukirchen style repair/replacement. I'm not sure a trip to Paris and the cost of a certificate for this one bow would be "paid for" by any increase in value or saleability you might get, not to mention that Raffin might say he can't certify this. He readily admits he's not an expert on German bows. If you have a few other bows to show him, and other business in Paris, that's another story.

 

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11 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

we are ALL Tourte school in the end

:D:D

11 hours ago, Michael Appleman said:

He readily admits he's not an expert on German bows

Then I have to think to show this bow to an expert on German bows... like who?...

 

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46 minutes ago, Felefar said:

Maybe Guillaume in Brussels? Or Schmidt in Dresden - those two were the first I thought of. 

Klaus Gruenke.

I don't think Pierre Guillaume would thank you for asking his opinion on this bow!

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On 10/4/2019 at 12:23 PM, jandepora said:

Do you think it is worth to show this one to Raffin or it is "only" a German bow?

04.thumb.jpg.7e086ed71d081a825f6569adc052af08.jpg01.thumb.jpg.310213b563ec4fcd2644a3d12ac5ea05.jpg09.thumb.jpg.d528247d69157e99450c42862c1e7e8c.jpg06.thumb.jpg.ca8314bed3be8bfa6dbfac9375c6bae4.jpg07.thumb.jpg.79e7bfdc08aaa0bcb108f5b5a1ead612.jpg08.thumb.jpg.1746bd9a550e3a16f1b08da6cea2ec58.jpg

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14.jpg

Looks to me like a "type specimen" for Pernambuco, and even shows what the proper end grain looks like.  Thanks for posting. :)

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4 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Looks to me like a "type specimen" for Pernambuco, and even shows what the proper end grain looks like.  Thanks for posting. :)

Thanks to you! Now I know that it is pernambuco ;)

I will try with Gruenke.

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5 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Looks to me like a "type specimen" for Pernambuco, and even shows what the proper end grain looks like.  Thanks for posting. :)

Aren't you supposed to ask how it sounds?

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