Sign in to follow this  
Rue

Ignacio Fleta violin signed by Heifetz

Recommended Posts

Just now, Michael Jennings said:

Perhaps if you were to provide us with and actual name and C.V. we would be a bit more likely to take you seriously........ no...probably not...

Might I suggest you get a new computer chair? one without the sharp broken spring protruding?

Great minds.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You look forward to leaving the arena of factual information and logic (where you seem to be at a loss) and shifting the discussion (to the extent you could even call this one with a straight face) to the realm of the personal where, because everything in it is relative, no one is ever conclusively right about anything.

I will not cooperate with you in such an attempted evasion.

The information I have set forth, although either ignored or beyond the ability of a few to grasp, points to the Cannone having been modified -- "customized" -- to fit Paganini's unique physiology. It is not entirely attributable to a rib bulge, which, while possibly present to a degree,  the top plate overhang in conjunction with the perpendicularity of the rib itself rules out as the reason for the margin loss in the bottom plate. Which, DA guesstimating it at 0.75 mm notwithstanding, measures > 2 mm in the life-sized image. And, while no off-angle picture allows a conclusive determination, appears to slope backward from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I can reduce this to simple enough terms to get it across.

If your pet dog has slipped his collar and is running around loose on the road where he might get hit by a car, this information is important and valuable to you no matter whether it is your neighbor who tells you or the town drunk.

The value of information is not a function of the esteem in which you hold the source of it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

 Of course Paganini filed away the edge, he also kept sandpaper in his case to get rid of some of that pesky varnish.....:lol::lol::mellow:

He used sharkskin. What's the matter with you people anyway? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, A432 said:

You look forward to leaving the arena of factual information and logic (where you seem to be at a loss) and shifting the discussion (to the extent you could even call this one with a straight face) to the realm of the personal where, because everything in it is relative, no one is ever conclusively right about anything.

I will not cooperate with you in such an attempted evasion.

The information I have set forth, although either ignored or beyond the ability of a few to grasp, points to the Cannone having been modified -- "customized" -- to fit Paganini's unique physiology. It is not entirely attributable to a rib bulge, which, while possibly present to a degree,  the top plate overhang in conjunction with the perpendicularity of the rib itself rules out as the reason for the margin loss in the bottom plate. Which, DA guesstimating it at 0.75 mm notwithstanding, measures > 2 mm in the life-sized image. And, while no off-angle picture allows a conclusive determination, appears to slope backward from there.

Certainly predictable.  Had you had any significant bench experience, this would not be a discussion.  If you refer to Nick Allen’s photo from Sunday 12:40 ish you can see where the rib bulges up from where it is glued to the neck block giving the very familiar shape.  When you take this along with the typical wear in the edges, the typical shape and placement of the wear, and the amount of edge left leading to the purfling, there really isn’t any room left for your “File” theory.  Thank you for clarifying your expertise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, A432 said:

And the associated deep groove in the bass side of the heel is atttributable to . . . (?)

So far no-one has refuted or tried to refute the idea that Paganini (or someone) might have hollowed out the thumb stop on the neck. This is widely accepted and well reported. 

As concerns the bulging rib and the entirely normal wear to the upper treble shoulder, we have conclusively proved that you are talking bollocks, beyond a shadow of doubt in anyone's mind but yours. You now tell us that proof means nothing, a Trumpian volte-face which is staggering in its hubris.

All this with the most absurd appeals to formal logic, a concept and practice which escapes you totally.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, martin swan said:

So far no-one has refuted or tried to refute the idea that Paganini (or someone) might have hollowed out the thumb stop on the neck. This is widely accepted and well reported. 

As concerns the bulging rib and the entirely normal wear to the upper treble shoulder, we have conclusively proved that you are talking bollocks, beyond a shadow of doubt in anyone's mind but yours. You now tell us that proof means nothing, a Trumpian volte-face which is staggering in its hubris.

All this with the most absurd appeals to formal logic, a concept and practice which escapes you totally.

 

It is interesting, however, this might be the only thing in history where we all agree.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, A432 said:

And the associated deep groove in the bass side of the heel is atttributable to . . . (?)

Dilworth wrote: " I was startled by the deeply worn thumb position on the bass side of the Sawicki fingerboard, evidently and consistent with written accounts, Paganini habitually placed his left thumb high against the neck root as an anchor position from which his preternaturally flexible fingers could reach all areas of the board."

In other words, Dilworth describes it as wear. Now put your file down, and go sit in the corner. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe that you have conclusively proven anything of the sort, Martin.

JD calls the thumb groove "wear."  This seems unlikely. Very much so.

Have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...*sigh* I am starting to feel very sorry for the horse, even though it's long dead...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked this once, but do not think the question was answered: what are the verifiable facts behind whether someone did or did not do over 250 years ago?  I am only asking out of curiosity because it is evident that the arguments for and against Paganini and his file seem to be based upon speculation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, A432 said:

I don't believe that you have conclusively proven anything of the sort, Martin.

JD calls the thumb groove "wear."  This seems unlikely. Very much so.

Have a nice day.

I have at no point addressed the question of the neck.

My only goal was to demonstrate that the wear to the shoulder is exactly as can be found on almost all old violins, and requires no bizarre alternative explanation. I think 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, A432 said:

JD calls the thumb groove "wear."  This seems unlikely. Very much so.

Paganini is believed to have kept his thumb in the same position. If he played Il Cannone for thousands of hours, then there's your Occam's razor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

I asked this once, but do not think the question was answered: what are the verifiable facts behind whether someone did or did not do over 250 years ago?  I am only asking out of curiosity because it is evident that the arguments for and against Paganini and his file seem to be based upon speculation.

A432 is coming to a conclusion based on lack of knowledge about how wood expands and contracts.  Because he does not understand the subject,  he jumped to a rather silly conclusion that the player must have caused the distortion he sees using a file.  He further does not have much experience looking at old instruments as he would see the exact same thing on all old violins that have not had the ribs shortened....and in fact is the reason we shorten ribs.  Further, I believe A432  knows how ridiculous his claim is now, but is having a tough time wiggling out from underneath his words and misplaced insults.

If you do a quick search on how wood expands and contracts you will see the facts you desire.  Also, searching for pictures of older instruments you will see the exact wear A432 is claiming Paganini did with a file...

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/understanding-wood-r-bruce-hoadley/1102092213/2662391023815?st=PLA&sid=BNB_ADL+Marketplace+Generic+Used+Textbooks+-+Desktop+Medium&sourceId=PLAGoNA&dpid=tdtve346c&2sid=Google_c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6byH9rCU5QIVh8DACh388w7yEAQYASABEgJlVfD_BwE

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is another question: amongst experts and laypersons alike, how does anyone "conclusively" prove an opinion where most, if not all, evidence is circumstantial?

Back to my last question, if there is some authenticated documented proof that Paganini filed down the rib, why not lead with that?  Otherwise, I am more convinced by Mr. Swan's three pictures of naturally worn ribs than wikipedia-based research.  

I am all out of popcorn and this just isn't the same experience without popcorn.  Ugh...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jerry Pasewicz said:

If you do a quick search on how wood expands and contracts you will see the facts you desire.  Also, searching for pictures of older instruments you will see the exact wear A432 is claiming Paganini did with a file...

 

Thank you Jerry.  However, I did not need to do any type of research because as an adult human with above average intelligence, eyes, and tactile functions, I knew that wood can be worn down simply by looking at my father's old rocking chair arm.  LOL!  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, violinnewb said:

Thank you Jerry.  However, I did not need to do any type of research because as an adult human with above average intelligence, eyes, and tactile functions, I knew that wood can be worn down simply by looking at my father's old rocking chair arm.  LOL!  

Which rocking chair arm? Left or right? Was your father left or right handed? Did he smoke a pipe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, violinnewb said:

Thank you Jerry.  However, I did not need to do any type of research because as an adult human with above average intelligence, eyes, and tactile functions, I knew that wood can be worn down simply by looking at my father's old rocking chair arm.  LOL!  

I figured you probably did, but I thought I would get out the "verifiable facts" you mentioned as maybe others would take the hint...The book is only $4.99.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Which rocking chair arm? Left or right? Was your father left or right handed? Did he smoke a pipe?

Bahahaha! It was passed down from my nana.  It is from the 1800s I believe.  The pipe was probably corn cob. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.