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Guido

To be, or not to be (compost)

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Got this violin pushing around for a while.

Pretty low ranking on the to-do-later-if-ever list. In and out of the parts bin... but every time I look at it there seems to be something interesting about it.

Rib corner joints look like internal mound but the linings are not let into the blocks.

Also, there was a nail going through the block and into the neck but I haven’t checked yet if that is a repair or a remnant of the original neck attachment.

what do you all think?

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I would let it on the Kompost ;). Though the blocks are assymmetrical it's nonetheless a bob construction (s. the way and the angle the rib ends are meeting), scroll fluting stopping early and everything suggesting that it's another product of the cottage industry with a dreadfull neck heel treatment and an overall worse condition.

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...its been close to the compost for a while (pictures taken in the garden on the way out).

But maybe... its more interesting.

Here is a zoom-in of a rib joint/s and I have drawn the line where the joint is. Can this possibly happen with BOB or must it be inside mould?

Also, it looks like it never had a through-neck but should be of a relevant age.

rib joints.jpeg

rib joint 2.jpeg

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Are you sure that it's mitred this way as your lines are suggesting? Zooming in the photos it looks more like a glue joint exactly in the middle. Through neck constructions weren't obligatory in Saxony from the 1880s onwards.

If the joints are like at your drawings I would rather assume an inside mould construction and somehing like a late 19th Mirecourt, but there are some features making this unlikely, f.e. the blackened pegbox. How long is the LOB?

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

I would let it on the Kompost ;)

I tried composting a violin once, it doesn‘t work. After 3 years, I dug it out of the compost heap in just about the same condition as when I put it in.

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7 minutes ago, Blank face said:

Are you sure that it's mitred this way as your lines are suggesting? Zooming in the photos it looks more like a glue joint exactly in the middle. Through neck constructions weren't obligatory in Saxony from the 1880s onwards.

If the joints are like at your drawings I would rather assume an inside mould construction and somehing like a late 19th Mirecourt, but there are some features making this unlikely, f.e. the blackened pegbox. How long is the LOB?

Never measured it... will report back.

The joints are mitred like I have drawn, quite sure; which was the main thing that gave me pause.

French inside mould? Also no cleats along the centre seam.

The scroll, even though not fluted to the end, doesn't scream Saxon to me I have to say. As heavily butchered as it is, blackening the pegbox might have been part of the repair/s.

I also have the impression that below the marred surface hides some reasonably neat work.

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2 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

I tried composting a violin once, it doesn‘t work. After 3 years, I dug it out of the compost heap in just about the same condition as when I put it in.

Threat title was inspired by you! You have mentioned the composting experiments before :-)

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Hmmm...a violin not composting is clearly indicating a secret Cremonese wood treatment. So one could claim a patent and make a lot of money with a new scientific way to certify.:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

I tried composting a violin once, it doesn‘t work. After 3 years, I dug it out of the compost heap in just about the same condition as when I put it in.

did sound better after you dug it up?

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On my screen it looks like a very neatly made violin. I think the corner blocks, linings an bass bar all look like they could be original. I see a hole in the top that seems to have belonged to a locating pin, doesn't that plead against BOB construction? It does look very german to me. Could it be one of those made by those mysterious Grossstadtgeigenbauer? 

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Großstadtgeigenbau means usually "finished from a Vogtland box/Vogtland parts" somewhere else, although it is possible that someone made a rib cage on it's own for them. OTOH, there are enough photograpical evidences that inside and outside moulds were used in Markneukirchen and Schönbach from the early 20th century on. I vaguely remember some CG Schusters and an Ackermann & Lesser having mitred ribs , but these where dated after 1910. Either the OP isn't that old as it looks like (late 19th) or a very early example of this type. I can't imagine that it is in it's main parts of a different origin.

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To avoid confusion, I should point out that my old Mittenwald/Markneukirchen ID post, that I regularly link too, pertains to the trade instruments of the 19thC. We had a thread a while back, where we discussed when the outside mould was introduced to the Markneukirchen area, I vaguely remember gradually after WWI. This violin could of course be one of those. That this rib cage is built around an inside mould is, I think, not the case. One way to tell for certain if it were “BOB”, would be to take the back off, and see if the blocks fit there, since I believe that they are “stuck in afterwards” ones, and in that case, there would be lots of “glue room”.

 

I think one could repair the violin. There is a lot of work, and it probably wouldn’t be “worth it” but that depends on your situation.

 

I see that grass grows quite nicely in Australia, so perhaps you don’t need any compost anyway.^_^

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The answer the other questions finally: Yes, a wooden pin through the belly at the lower and often the upper block, too, is very common within bob construction, it's rarther rarely seen at other methods. And it's possible, too, to mitre one of the ribs before clamping them together. This could imply to give the impression of a different construction, usually another 20th century trick. So if you decide one day to take everything apart (probably necessary to repair the button) one could look at the underside of the corner blocks. But maybe it would be a more economical way (unless one has more spare time than violins to repair) to give it to some Oz auction house if there's a lack of old European violins for repair?

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