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Jeff White

I'm thinking Mittenwald.......Violin ID

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I'm thinking this is a Mittenwald, early 19th C.  Isn't that some "crazy" chicken breast"??!!  What do you guys think?  LOB is 352 (thought that might be significant)

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How do the corner blocks look?  To me this looks like something that would be called a generic "Bohemian"

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They look "non original", however, they are proportioned like Mitt. This might be on Consignment and will need a SP patch (old one poorly done and crack open) and at that time I will get some better views.  Just trying to figure a price range for the customer to see if all the work is worth it.

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8 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

Looks Saxon to me

Dang, missed again!!!  I think the owner will consign it and resulting in the top coming off and I'll show the inside then.  

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I ended up buying it and the top has to come off as the soundpost crack is opening up.  Yuck, nightmare inside.  I can see now that BF and Jacob were right....I think.  What construction is this? Not Bob, not inside mold.  Outside?  Common for this area at that time?  Note that 3 of the corner blocks have "additions" to them.  Looks to have been an outside mold (process of elimination?) with little CB's in them that someone down the road thought they need to be more substantial for marketability?

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Looks IMO like a built on the back construction. The rib ends were filed round afterwards so that they can appear as if they were mitred (what they aren't).

Manipulations and/or additions at corner blocks of this type are very common.

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I guess what I'm confused about is that the lack of "acuteness" of the rib end.  Can't imagine that  those rib ends where clamped together.

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14 hours ago, Jeff White said:

I guess what I'm confused about is that the lack of "acuteness" of the rib end.  Can't imagine that  those rib ends where clamped together.

As I wrote, the rib joints were rounded afterwards, either with a file or sandpaper. The last bird's view shows it very clearly, straight joint inside without mitre, but rounded at the  outside.

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1 hour ago, Blank face said:

As I wrote, the rib joints were rounded afterwards, either with a file or sandpaper. The last bird's view shows it very clearly, straight joint inside without mitre, but rounded at the  outside.

How are you arriving at this decision with such blurred and out of focus pictures ?

To know for certain we would need to be able to see the grain direction of the ribs which is not possible with these pictures.

If they were pinched together and then filed the grain direction would show this.

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1 hour ago, Delabo said:

How are you arriving at this decision with such blurred and out of focus pictures ?

To know for certain we would need to be able to see the grain direction of the ribs which is not possible with these pictures.

If they were pinched together and then filed the grain direction would show this.

The last photo I pointed to is neither blurred nor out of focus. Either you can see it, or you can't. If you can't, I can't help neither.

BTW, not the first rib joint done this way I have seen.

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10 minutes ago, vathek said:

Given the amount of work done on this violin someone(s) must have thought very highly of it.

I believe that to be a popular misconception. Once you start to repair a violin, you have to finish it, even if you realise half way that it isn't worth it

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52 minutes ago, vathek said:

Given the amount of work done on this violin someone(s) must have thought very highly of it.

And a classic salesman line when someone presents you with a beat up old instrument.

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3 hours ago, Blank face said:

The last photo I pointed to is neither blurred nor out of focus. Either you can see it, or you can't. If you can't, I can't help neither.

BTW, not the first rib joint done this way I have seen.

I am not doubting your expert opinion, only that I have difficulty in visualising how these fake mitres are achieved.

One day I will glue together two mock ribs to see how its done. The best I can see in my minds eye is that  a real mitre would have grain runout at the join  on the mating side, whereas a fake mitre would have grain runout on the out  side of the rib where it has been sanded or filed down. :)

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39 minutes ago, Delabo said:

The best I can see in my minds eye is that  a real mitre would have grain runout at the join  on the mating side, whereas ...

i think with the "real" there's a chance you'll be able to see end grain from the upper and lower ribs spanning the width of the corners. the unreal has the seam in the exact middle and it's treated look superficially like the other style

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Here it’s visible that the ends of the ribs are meeting nearly parallel without any mitre while the tip of the upper rib is rounded from above/the outside.

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