Lupot Del Gesu Copies

[Three13]

On 10/16/2019 at 12:22 AM, Wood Butcher said:

Probably not, but you could contact them. I’m sure they would be happy to measure it for you.

I did - 194-mm. Doesn't seem like many of the early copyists were fond of GdG's 191/192-mm stop...

[Wood Butcher]

194 sounds a good measure. I don't think it can be said that all GDG's have 191/192 stop, and I suppose it depends which violin Lupot actually had his hands on to say whether he did the same or not.

[Three13]

Not all of them - the Cannone has 198-mm.

[scordatura]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:40 AM, martin swan said:

Scarampellas - I wonder if there are many that are "unmolested". His violins carry such a weight of expectation, I think most have been turned into what one expects them to be ...

I have played one that was not regraduated. If you go after the sound it was very vibrant (loud if you will). This violin was not for a player that favors bow speed and not pressure (Milstein comes to mind). Think Zukerman. 

That day I also played a DG (most likely regraduated) owned by a very famous player. Both wonderful instruments but I will say that if you muscled the Scarampella it was really good and in a way gave the DG a run for its money.

[Michael Darnton]

I just noticed this thread because of another thread referring to it. I wanted to comment that I have played relatively many of the remainingly-thick del Gesus--five or six, I think-- and was surprised to find that though they could be complex sounding in some cases, they weren't dark sounding. This was also one of my discoveries in the process of making my full-thickness copies. AFTER I worked out the arching so that the problem of getting good response out of a thick violin, what I ended up with were instruments that were surprisingly bright, which seems contrary to the common perception of del Gesus that's been mentioned.

Somewhere along the line, some years ago, David Burgess made a comment in passing that made me think that this could be due not to the thick tops, but thick backs. His comment was, if I remember right, about the role of the sound post with regard to stiffening the treble side of the top, and the separate effects of post pressure vs stiffening from a more resistant back, perhaps in a discussion of the placement of the post on the back relative to the centerline/ribs, rather than about back thickness. . .  I don't remember the exact context.

Anyway, that comment started the gears spinning, and currently awaiting setup I have made a Strad model violin with a thick top and a not-too-thin back, with that discussion in mind. This is not too far from what some of the earlier Venetians like Goffriller did, and I am reminded of some lovely Goffriller violins I've seen that have been described as "as close to a Cremonese sound as anyone outside of Cremona ever got".  But sometimes without the characteristic Cremonese brilliance. 

Just thought I'd drop that comment with regard to original del Gesu thickness and copying, since it doesn't seem too far from where this thread has gone.

To my mind, critical to all of this is having an arching that's responsive. Without that, all you have is a thick violin that very few players will want to play and that. someone will eventually be driven to regraduate.

[Bruce Carlson]

On 10/18/2019 at 12:49 AM, Three13 said:

Not all of them - the Cannone has 198-mm.

I haven't seen "il Cannone" measured at 198. When I measured it the inside notch on the treble side was 197.5 mm but the foot impression of the bridge into the spruce belly was closer to 197 mm.

On the bass side it is longer to the inside notch at 199 mm. The treble side has much more wear on the edge which could account for some of the difference.

[Pate Bliss]

On 10/4/2019 at 12:04 PM, martin swan said:

This is not to do with self-censorship, it's to do with copyright. And if it's not to do with legally enforceable moral rights, it's to do with good conduct.

Ingles & Hayday took these photos, and put them up on the web in order to sell the violin - they are acting here in the interests of the current owner of the violin, whose permission they have to disseminate images.

Third parties have no rights to these images, and in the case of a violin sold at auction, there is a protocol to be followed. if for example the buyer of the violin doesn't want images to remain on the web or to be featured in Ingles & Hayday's archive, I'm sure they have the right to that privacy.

I can't blame you for wanting to destroy the internet.

[martin swan]

I was explaining to someone that they have no automatic right to access images just because they were once published, and conversely that the auction house and the buyer do have the right to take images down.

People do seem to have a bit of a bind spot about this kind of thing, and start foaming at the mouth when others exercise their right to privacy/discretion.

Think back 30 years - producers were sampling other peoples' music left right and centre and there was widespread delight at the possibility of borrowing/recycling/stealing sounds. Now it's hard to imagine how anyone ever thought like that ...

Most kinds of free-for-alls eventually get legislated away.

[PhilipKT]

On 10/4/2019 at 6:23 AM, Michael Appleman said:

Makes me think of Scarampellas some 40 years ago, when dealers, collectors and even players kept shoving them at me telling me I should be liking this, and I couldn't figure out what was so special about these shrieky, hard to play boxes. About 20 years ago, I started coming across Scarampellas that played more like fine 18thc italian violins.  Maybe I only tried mediocre ones before, or maybe they got "played in" in the mean time, or maybe...

 

I spent some time with a Scarampella cello and my end impression was that it required a tremendous amount of work, but that it was worth the work. I remember my back, between the shoulder blades, being very sore after the first few 3-hour rehearsals I played, because it was so much work. But it sounded meaningful, and I remember it fondly.