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mendicus

Linings let into corner blocks to both sides ID

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Bought it from England, from outside ribs mitres looks like BoB but from inside I think it could be outside mould.Linings are let into corner blocks, original baroque neck nailed to block, notches on ffs are only marked, not cut through whole thickness of plate, wings on ffs are cut like Samuel Sygmuivfewbifwicz do it:). purfling is painted.There are 3 baroque pegs, paler one I think could be original from this violin.Could it be 18th century english? Is it possible to ID maker?

Thanks

 

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Wow, so the neck is screwed or bolted on to the end block? Is that at all common? Does not seem like it would be stable without a mortise.

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3 hours ago, fiddlerjer said:

Wow, so the neck is screwed or bolted on to the end block? Is that at all common? Does not seem like it would be stable without a mortise.

it was common on baroque violins, if I am not wrong even Strad or GdG did it that way

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13 minutes ago, mendicus said:

it was common on baroque violins, if I am not wrong even Strad or GdG did it that way

Nails.

Looking at the pics, I though that it looked very English, and was pleased to see Martin's assessment.

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I was searching on internet but couldn't find anything about such corner blocks. Is this violin made using inside mould or BoB?

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4 hours ago, mendicus said:

I was searching on internet but couldn't find anything about such corner blocks. Is this violin made using inside mould or BoB?

Or another method? Built on back with corner blocks added first? We see something similar on some of these "Is this French or German? instruments, where there are original corner blocks but the ribs look pinched.

 

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Hmmmm

The corner blocks appear to be more or less symmetrical, so that does not fit inside mold.

They are tight fitting with no gaps - so not BOB.

Maybe very slight asymmetry favoring the C-bouts - which would be outside mold.

I give up, what are they  ? :lol:

unknown corner.jpg

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The violin is far too early for an outside mold.

And the ribs aren't all pinched together - at lest 2 of the joins are mitred, one seems to be finished without a mitre, can't really see the fourth.

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1 hour ago, sospiri said:

Is this French or German?

No.  Try "and".  :lol:

I would suspect that this example comes from one of the cultural borderlands not usually on our "main grid". Alsace/Lorraine, Valais, Luxembourg, someplace with a mixed character, like this fiddle has.  :)

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On 8/30/2019 at 11:51 AM, martin swan said:

I would have thought this was an early 19th century English country maker,.

 

On 8/30/2019 at 7:42 PM, duane88 said:

 

Looking at the pics, I though that it looked very English, and was pleased to see Martin's assessment.

 

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24 minutes ago, martin swan said:
On 8/30/2019 at 6:51 AM, martin swan said:

I would have thought this was an early 19th century English country maker,.


You're trying to tell me that rural England isn't a "cultural borderland"?  :ph34r:;)

 

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Would a professional violin maker change the direction of the grain of the corner blocks ?

With my limited knowledge I think the grain should point toward the tip of the corner.

grain direction.jpg

grain direction 2.jpg

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19 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Would a professional violin maker change the direction of the grain of the corner blocks ?

With my limited knowledge I think the grain should point toward the tip of the corner.

 

 

Stainer didn't

 

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Its worth  remembering  that there are a great number  of  variations  on the BOB method, and plenty of makers who, not having  been  reared in a particular  school,  made their own way. There are other ways to work  without  a  form.

Often,  the ribs are built on a board, around blocks, finished, and then transferred to the back. Very much  like using  an inside  form, but following  a pencil  line with the  ribs. I've done lots of  violas like that, and several  copies,  where a form would  have  been  too much  of  an investment for a one off. A friend  of  mine,  who trained  at  the  London  college has never done it any other way. You have to  be  pretty  good  at  bending  ribs.

I suppose  that the only features  that  would  force one to set the sides directly  on  the  back would  be  a through neck, or a groove, like the old French  makers did, or a lack of corner blocks, although I  have made ribs with linen corners on a board.

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30 minutes ago, Conor Russell said:

Its worth  remembering  that there are a great number  of  variations  on the BOB method, and plenty of makers who, not having  been  reared in a particular  school,  made their own way. There are other ways to work  without  a  form.

Often,  the ribs are built on a board, around blocks, finished, and then transferred to the back. Very much  like using  an inside  form, but following  a pencil  line with the  ribs. I've done lots of  violas like that, and several  copies,  where a form would  have  been  too much  of  an investment for a one off. A friend  of  mine,  who trained  at  the  London  college has never done it any other way. You have to  be  pretty  good  at  bending  ribs.

I suppose  that the only features  that  would  force one to set the sides directly  on  the  back would  be  a through neck, or a groove, like the old French  makers did, or a lack of corner blocks, although I  have made ribs with linen corners on a board.

Yes - I would assume that in this case the maker was a skilled amateur or part-timer, and that the ribs were built first.

Noteworthy that the linings are also mortised into the back of the top and bottom blocks.

Possibly an accomplished woodworker in some other field.

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2 hours ago, mendicus said:

linings are maple

Milan makers used maple. But I guess any maker would use what is at hand and maple would be an easy choice.

Carlo Testore built on the back and let the maple linings into the corner blocks according to Roger Hargreaves.

Testore nailed his necks onto the body so that rules yours out.

Was it just the English who screwed the necks on  ?

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One thing that I often  notice is how nicely  the  purfling is painted  on, even on fairly  crude English  violins. Surely  someone  must know  how they did it - I'd love to hear.

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2 minutes ago, Conor Russell said:

Yes. 

One thing that I often  notice is how nicely  the  purfling is painted  on, even on fairly  crude English  violins. Surely  someone  must know  how they did it - I'd love to hear.

I suspect a roller that follows the outline.

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It wouldn't  surprise  me  if the screw was a repair  in this case.

I showed a similar  violin here some years ago, and have seen another, whose  necks were secured with a wooden dowel driven at an angle through  the  face of the neck, and down  through  the  block. Any screwed  neck I've seen had the screw centred in the block  as you'd usually  see  a nail.

 

Yes Dean's, must have been  something  like  that,  but fed with ink.

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40 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Was it just the English who screwed the necks on  ?

"Lead us not into temptation...."  :ph34r::lol:;)

2 hours ago, martin swan said:

Yes - I would assume that in this case the maker was a skilled amateur or part-timer, and that the ribs were built first.

Noteworthy that the linings are also mortised into the back of the top and bottom blocks.

Possibly an accomplished woodworker in some other field.

Agreed, of course, and on the whole, probably 19th. Century British, but, IMHO, without a firmly attributed similar reference example, "made somewhere in 19th. Century Western Europe by a skilled cabinetmaker who dabbled in violins" is as close as one might get.  The chunky appearance of the scroll from the rear is tickling my memory, but I can't quite place it.  Anyone know of a maker who did that persistently?  :)

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2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

 

Agreed, of course, and on the whole, probably 19th. Century British, but, IMHO, without a firmly attributed similar reference example, "made somewhere in 19th. Century Western Europe by a skilled cabinetmaker who dabbled in violins" is as close as one might get.  The chunky appearance of the scroll from the rear is tickling my memory, but I can't quite place it. 

A lot of distinctively English features here ...

I think you could rule out pretty much everywhere else just by looking at the shot of the back.

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