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Andreas Preuss

Which criteria would exclude that an instrument is Dutzendarbeit from Markneukirchen?

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I am trying to reverse the logic. If there are certain features which draw the conclusion that an instrument is Dutzendarbeit from Markneukirchen, there must be also features which would exclude this possibility with a high percentage rate. 

What comes to my mind is

1. Ebony for the blacks of the purfling

2. linings inserted in the blocks

3. pins on the back

4. willow for blocks AND linings

5. corners thicker than the rest of the edgework

6. Center line scratch mark on the scroll (not quite sure about that feature)

 

Anything else?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Andreas Preuss said:

I am trying to reverse the logic. If there are certain features which draw the conclusion that an instrument is Dutzendarbeit from Markneukirchen, there must be also features which would exclude this possibility with a high percentage rate. 

What comes to my mind is

1. Ebony for the blacks of the purfling

2. linings inserted in the blocks

3. pins on the back

4. willow for blocks AND linings

5. corners thicker than the rest of the edgework

6. Center line scratch mark on the scroll (not quite sure about that feature)

 

Anything else?

 

 

IMHO, #2 is unequivocal, but the rest need context, and shouldn't be interpreted alone.  Also, a repairer or "improver" might have done anything to a Markie.  I'd add upper and lower bout ribs lapped over c bout ribs, asymmetrical corner blocks, and continuous linings to the above list, as things I wouldn't expect on a Markie. :)

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Now I am confused.

I thought  dutzendarbeit just meant "dozen work" ?

And Markneukirchen violins came in various grade levels but could still be bought by the dozen  -  even top quality ones ?

Or is it a term used for cheaper grade violins only ?

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10 minutes ago, Delabo said:

 

Now I am confused.

I thought  dutzendarbeit just meant "dozen work" ?

And Markneukirchen violins came in various grade levels but could still be bought by the dozen  -  even top quality ones ?

Or is it a term used for cheaper grade violins only ?

On this board it seems to be mote often used on cheap instruments, and often in a derogatory context.

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Dutzenarbeit is the work of a dozen makers, each specialising in one component as opposed to one maker making every part himself. It does not necessarily mean lower quality.

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1 hour ago, Delabo said:

 Markneukirchen violins came in various grade levels but could still be bought by the dozen  -  even top quality ones

Exactly that's the definition and nothing else. Historically a very few were sold as a single "Master" instrument, for instance the ivory edged as I showed several times before at documents of the period.

I don't think that it's possible to define exact criterias top seperate to Dutzenarbeiten from Meisterarbeiten, it depends also of the period.

From the late 19th wasn't much demand for "feine Geigen" anymore (Bericht der Gewerbekammer Plauen), so probably there weren't made many at all. Stuff like fine EH Roths and Ernst Reinhold Schmidts might belong to a different categorie, neither of both.

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6 hours ago, Felefar said:

Dutzenarbeit is the work of a dozen makers, each specialising in one component as opposed to one maker making every part himself. It does not necessarily mean lower quality.

  My understanding is that Dutzenarbeit instruments were sold  by the dozen.

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1 minute ago, Brad H said:

  My understanding is that Dutzenarbeit instruments were sold  by the dozen.

Yes.

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4 hours ago, Michael Szyper said:

What about a noticeable edge overhang at the corners?

No. Cheaper MK instruments can have any amount of over hang although NOT having an overhang does point toward Saxon/Bohemian origin.

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18 hours ago, Felefar said:

Dutzenarbeit is the work of a dozen makers, each specialising in one component as opposed to one maker making every part himself. It does not necessarily mean lower quality.

Wrong 

'Im Dutzend arbeiten' or making in dozens is abbreviated as Dutzendarbeit. It has nothing to do with the number of people involved.

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9 hours ago, Three13 said:

By this logic, this would be non-dutzenarbeit, then?

 

60ADA248-0DE1-419F-8FD8-95C9DFA113D1.jpeg

I am not quite sure what I am supposed to see here. If the linings go really into the blocks I would dismiss it as Dutzendarbeit.

 

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22 hours ago, Violadamore said:

IMHO, #2 is unequivocal, but the rest need context, and shouldn't be interpreted alone.  Also, a repairer or "improver" might have done anything to a Markie.  I'd add upper and lower bout ribs lapped over c bout ribs, asymmetrical corner blocks, and continuous linings to the above list, as things I wouldn't expect on a Markie. :)

Yes, I agree that there are some features which are weaker than others. In any case if I'd see several unlikely features I'd certainly would dismiss the instrument in question as coming from Markneukirchen.

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8 hours ago, Eloffe said:

complete fluting [extending beyond 6 o'clock]

You mean the double fluting on the scroll? 

As far as I remember, the better grade Dutzendarbeit is cleaner and more 'sophisticated' .

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