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xraymymind

Glazing Techniques

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Hello all,

I am currently experimenting with colouring my home-made varnishes, and I am interested in trying to apply a Glaze of transparent colour inbetween layers of varnish. I have just a few questions, if any of you out there that do this could help me with. (Note, I have already searched for previous topics on this, and could not find answers to these questions...)

Firstly, I would like to apply a thin glaze of (for example) W&N Rose Madder, from the tube over my clear varnish. I wonder if it is possible to apply it directly from the tube, and to rub it on evenly with fingers (perhaps slightly thinned with turps or gamsol if too thick to get it even), or if it needs some sort of drying agent to be added? (I have tried adding it directly to the oil varnish, but find it too dilute. Hence wanting a pure glaze)

My main concern, is getting the evenly applied oil paint glaze to dry properly over a coat of (already dried under UV) oil varnish, and then to be able to varnish over it - without this over varnish re-dissolving the glaze.

Obviously I am practising on test strips, but would really like to hear tips or advice from others that do this.

Thank you

 

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First try rubbing out the pigment onto a smooth varnished piece of wood. Spread the pigment out and then try to wipe almost all of it off with your hand. If it gets to sticky to allow this, then on a second smooth varnished piece of wood,  first apply a coat of linseed oil and wipe it off by hand. Now apply the pigment. The oil will facilitate moving the pigment to a thin layer. Now use uv lights to help the oil harden.

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Be aware of the fat over lean rule. Layering artist oil paints will violate that unless you blend them with you varnish as recommended above. High oil content (fat) layers shrink more than lean layers producing craquelure and gatoring. I imagine that if your glaze is micron-thin, you just might dodge that bullet. Some makers like the effect of craquelure. If done in moderation, it can look great.

Experiment first. 

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16 hours ago, xraymymind said:

Hello all,

I am currently experimenting with colouring my home-made varnishes, and I am interested in trying to apply a Glaze of transparent colour inbetween layers of varnish. I have just a few questions, if any of you out there that do this could help me with. (Note, I have already searched for previous topics on this, and could not find answers to these questions...)

Firstly, I would like to apply a thin glaze of (for example) W&N Rose Madder, from the tube over my clear varnish. I wonder if it is possible to apply it directly from the tube, and to rub it on evenly with fingers (perhaps slightly thinned with turps or gamsol if too thick to get it even), or if it needs some sort of drying agent to be added? (I have tried adding it directly to the oil varnish, but find it too dilute. Hence wanting a pure glaze)

My main concern, is getting the evenly applied oil paint glaze to dry properly over a coat of (already dried under UV) oil varnish, and then to be able to varnish over it - without this over varnish re-dissolving the glaze.

Obviously I am practising on test strips, but would really like to hear tips or advice from others that do this.

Thank you

 

The idea is not new. I remember that very longtime ago there was an article in the Strad magazine about this technique 'Flying colors'. 

Back theni tried it once myself but couldn't achieve any good results with it. Either the Cole was too pale or the application not even.

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6 minutes ago, Andreas Preuss said:

The idea is not new. I remember that very longtime ago there was an article in the Strad magazine about this technique 'Flying colors'. 

Back theni tried it once myself but couldn't achieve any good results with it. Either the Cole was too pale or the application not even.

I too ran into similar problems in trying to spread a thin highly colored film evenly. I gave up.

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3 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

I too ran into similar problems in trying to spread a thin highly colored film evenly. I gave up.

I tried it on 3 or 4 instruments.  I should've stopped after the first. 

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M.M  I think you got it backwards.  The fat over lean rule says that the lower layer should be lean and the upper layer fat to prevent cracking.   On my old VSO I applied a thin glaze.  

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3 minutes ago, MikeC said:

M.M  I think you got it backwards.  The fat over lean rule says that the lower layer should be lean and the upper layer fat to prevent cracking.   On my old VSO I applied a thin glaze.  

Right, but I thought the OP was alternating glaze layers with varnish layers. If it is only one oil-rich glaze as the top layer, there is no issue.

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I have used this method also and got reasonably good results but have since moved to other methods.  If the color is thin enough and carefully stippled or tamponed with the palm of your hand it should remain fairly transparent and not present drying problems. I would not thin the color or add varnish to it the whole point is to have just the slightest blush of the color so you basically put on a light coat and then remove  as much as you can. There will still be a haze of color left behind which is what you want. I will still add a glaze at times if I feel the color needs more body. One possible draw back to glazing is that it wears very abruptly. When you go through the glaze layer the color is simply gone.

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2 minutes ago, Michael_Molnar said:

Right, but I thought the OP alternating glaze layers with varnish layers. If it is only one oil-rich glaze as the top layer, there is no issue.

You're right,  I re-read it.   I guess varnish could be applied over the glaze but it should have more oil content.   When I tried it I was able to get an even color but added more in the C bouts for some shading to give it a more antique look but there is some opaqueness.     FredN recommends adding a little burn umber oil paint to the varnish while cooking it for color.    

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18 hours ago, xraymymind said:

Hello all,

I am currently experimenting with colouring my home-made varnishes, and I am interested in trying to apply a Glaze of transparent colour inbetween layers of varnish. I have just a few questions, if any of you out there that do this could help me with. (Note, I have already searched for previous topics on this, and could not find answers to these questions...)

Firstly, I would like to apply a thin glaze of (for example) W&N Rose Madder, from the tube over my clear varnish. I wonder if it is possible to apply it directly from the tube, and to rub it on evenly with fingers (perhaps slightly thinned with turps or gamsol if too thick to get it even), or if it needs some sort of drying agent to be added? (I have tried adding it directly to the oil varnish, but find it too dilute. Hence wanting a pure glaze)

My main concern, is getting the evenly applied oil paint glaze to dry properly over a coat of (already dried under UV) oil varnish, and then to be able to varnish over it - without this over varnish re-dissolving the glaze.

Obviously I am practising on test strips, but would really like to hear tips or advice from others that do this.

Thank you

 

I would....

Put a squeeze of the tube pigment on a paper towel.  Let it sit a day and the excess oil will leach out.

Apply some of the pigment to a varnished test strip.  Record how long it takes for the pigment to dry....that is "it won't rub off under normal use pressure".

Use the pigment on the test strip  as you would on the instrument.

When the pigment is dry, apply a very thin coat of shellac to seal the surface,

I have had good had good luck with Windsor Newton Water Mixable Oil Pigments [http://www.winsornewton.com/na/shop/oil-colour/artisan-water-mixable-oil-colour].

If you don't like what you have done,, you can wipe them off with water and try again.

They actually dry and do not smear when the shellac is applied.

on we go,

Joe

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I sent this in a PM but in case anyone is interested I'll post it here too.  This is the video I watched for instruction way back when I glazed mine.   Next time I'm just going to cook as much color into the rosin as I can and make a lean varnish.  Maybe with just a little lake pigments added.

 

 

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4 hours ago, joerobson said:

I would....

Put a squeeze of the tube pigment on a paper towel.  Let it sit a day and the excess oil will leach out.

Apply some of the pigment to a varnished test strip.  Record how long it takes for the pigment to dry....that is "it won't rub off under normal use pressure".

Use the pigment on the test strip  as you would on the instrument.

When the pigment is dry, apply a very thin coat of shellac to seal the surface,

I have had good had good luck with Windsor Newton Water Mixable Oil Pigments [http://www.winsornewton.com/na/shop/oil-colour/artisan-water-mixable-oil-colour].

If you don't like what you have done,, you can wipe them off with water and try again.

They actually dry and do not smear when the shellac is applied.

on we go,

Joe

This sounds a very promising idea. I wonder if it is OK to have a thin layer of Shellac sandwiched inside an Oil Varnish finish?

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To spread a glaze I use a big soft brush.  One of those cheap square ones with a head 2'' x 4'' will do. I whip the colour  over the surface,  wiping  the brush  off on a sheet  of  paper to clean off excess paint. This way I can leave a super thin layer, as Nathan suggests. 

I dont use the glaze method,  but I do put layers of dirt on, made with  paint. 

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Glazes may look nice on a pristine varnished violin IF applied uniformly, which is quite a challenge as stated by Michael Molnar. Be careful not to use glazes if you plan to make an antiqued violin, the best result would be a pretty “faked” look, the worst a desaster.

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Took a while to find it..  a scary scene from the way back machine.   Being in sunlight makes it look better than it really looks.  

 

glaze.png

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7 hours ago, joerobson said:

I would....

Put a squeeze of the tube pigment on a paper towel.  Let it sit a day and the excess oil will leach out.

Apply some of the pigment to a varnished test strip.  Record how long it takes for the pigment to dry....that is "it won't rub off under normal use pressure".

Use the pigment on the test strip  as you would on the instrument.

When the pigment is dry, apply a very thin coat of shellac to seal the surface,

I have had good had good luck with Windsor Newton Water Mixable Oil Pigments [http://www.winsornewton.com/na/shop/oil-colour/artisan-water-mixable-oil-colour].

If you don't like what you have done,, you can wipe them off with water and try again.

They actually dry and do not smear when the shellac is applied.

on we go,

Joe

Joe,

No adhesion issues with layered shellac and oil varnish?

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I too wonder if there is any adhesion issues, if not, it could be the solution.

I have read of somebody using Liquin as a medium alongside the Oil paint glaze. I wonder if anybody here has tried this between coats of oil varnish...

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7 hours ago, MikeC said:

I sent this in a PM but in case anyone is interested I'll post it here too.  This is the video I watched for instruction way back when I glazed mine.   Next time I'm just going to cook as much color into the rosin as I can and make a lean varnish.  Maybe with just a little lake pigments added.

 

 

Would like to see more details from the finished instrument to see how even the color application is. I guess this method can achieve more easily shaded areas where wanted or where they naturally occur.

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2 hours ago, nathan slobodkin said:

Joe,

No adhesion issues with layered shellac and oil varnish?

No.  Shellac sticks to everything and everything sticks to shellac.

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15 hours ago, xraymymind said:

I too wonder if there is any adhesion issues, if not, it could be the solution.

I have read of somebody using Liquin as a medium alongside the Oil paint glaze. I wonder if anybody here has tried this between coats of oil varnish...

"Liquin" painting medium has already shown some negative effects over the years. I remember that there is a thread, here on Maestronet, containing information about this one and other products it's better to avoid entirely.

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