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fiddlerjer

Arching tutorials?

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I spent the past week at Cambridge Violin Makers where I made a good start on my first violin. I'm hoping to complete it at home over the coming months with the help of books and online videos/tutorials... Wondering if anyone can recommend good videos/tutorials to help me make a start on roughing out the arching? My understanding of the next few steps is that I should rough out the arching on both front and back with a 6mm wide flat platform around the edge, then glue the garland between them, trim the edges, mark the purfling, take the garland out, cut groove and install the purfling, then finish the arching and channel, cut out the f-holes and excavate the inside of the arching, at which point I'd be ready to glue up the body. Do I have this roughly straight? I have some understanding of each step from reading I've done and from observation at last week's workshop; I'm hoping that watching videos of experienced makers and reading threads here will help me keep from making a hash of it.

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Don't forget the bassbar somewhere in between all that.  The order you listed should be fine.  Lot's of people do things in lots of different orders and so as not to make things complicated, what you've written will work.  The work you've already done looks great.  I doubt you'll make a hash of it.  You've seen Maestro Sora's videos I'm sure, right?  In my opinion they are hands down the best violin making videos you'll see on the interwebs.  Here's a link to "arching" just in case.  English translations in the description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRJpHOCYhqk

 

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Thanks, I'll check out Sora's videos.

Another thing as long as I'm asking about tutorials... Any recommendations for where to learn about sharpening blades and setting up/tuning planes? One thing I had known all along but really realized this past week is, my tools are nowhere near as sharp as they should be. Such a pleasure to work with sharp, finely set tools.

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22 minutes ago, fiddlerjer said:

Thanks, I'll check out Sora's videos.

Another thing as long as I'm asking about tutorials... Any recommendations for where to learn about sharpening blades and setting up/tuning planes? One thing I had known all along but really realized this past week is, my tools are nowhere near as sharp as they should be. Such a pleasure to work with sharp, finely set tools.

Any specific questions?  "The Handplane Book" by Garrett Hack is great.  There is also a new edition of (I'll paraphrase 'cause I cant remember exact title) "Making and Using Wood Planes" by David Finck(e?) that is fantastic.

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I also am a fan of the Davide Sora videos that Mr. Coleman mentioned....great stuff.  I am not sure how much wood carving you have done already.. but one thing to keep in mind is that the spruce will carve much differently than the maple. The softer wood (spruce) for the top plate will require just a bit more finesse and care to prevent tear out or over carving... the gouge can easliy remove a bit more than intended untill you gain a feel for the process. You can do some practice on the plate cutoffs. These cutoffs are also useful for purfling practice, ground and varnish trials, glue trials, and specific gravity measurements.  

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5 hours ago, fiddlerjer said:

Thanks, I'll check out Sora's videos.

Another thing as long as I'm asking about tutorials... Any recommendations for where to learn about sharpening blades and setting up/tuning planes? One thing I had known all along but really realized this past week is, my tools are nowhere near as sharp as they should be. Such a pleasure to work with sharp, finely set tools.

For arching,  Davide Sora

For sharpening hand plane blades look up Paul Sellers on youtube. 

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Mr Darnton also has an excellent chapter on edgework. I dont currently have the link.  It was part of a book he had been putting together. 

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Those Sora videos are great -- I watched and rewatched the first couple "roughing out the back" videos, and made a start on my back... 

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12 hours ago, fiddlerjer said:

Those Sora videos are great -- I watched and rewatched the first couple "roughing out the back" videos, and made a start on my back... 

image.png.57dbbf66333a60932c2bf00d9e2c5a6d.png

Looking good so far! That holdfast may damage soft timber such as spruce, best to add a thick leather pad and save yourself some trouble.

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33 minutes ago, Mampara said:

Looking good so far! That holdfast may damage soft timber such as spruce, best to add a thick leather pad and save yourself some trouble.

Oh thanks, I hadn't thought of that. 

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18 hours ago, Nick Allen said:

Also, you need to establish the long arch before you do anything after this other than purfling and finishing the outline. 

Thanks, here is current state of it -- the shape of the long arch is not quite right yet but is getting closer. 

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If I plane away the marked areas, it will be closer yet.

image.png.7eb28beb6b359123d990051e079ddbc1.png 

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Going by your photos it looks like you need to be careful not to take away any more between the Cs. The shape there should be almost circular/convex and rise up fairly sharply about 10 mm  in from the edge at the narrowest point.

The reverse is probably true for the upper and lower bouts in the sections just above and below the corners where quite a lot has to be removed well in from the edge.

And you do need a long arch guide to establish the height at the centre of the plate along its length.

 

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23 minutes ago, Dennis J said:

Going by your photos it looks like you need to be careful not to take away any more between the Cs. The shape there should be almost circular/convex and rise up fairly sharply about 10 mm  in from the edge at the narrowest point.

My flat platform only extends about 6mm in from the edge (measurement taken from Juliet Barker's book) -- I think if I carved it in to 10mm width, the arch in the C bout would be rising sharply. Maybe I should do that?

25 minutes ago, Dennis J said:

And you do need a long arch guide to establish the height at the centre of the plate along its length.

There is a long arch guide included with the Strobel book -- I'll set up a template from that.

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Don't worry too much about exact measurements at this stage around the edge it is best to leave a little bit of extra thickness there because it can be dealt with at a later stage when finishing the channeling. Concentrate on getting the arching shape above about twice edge thickness under control first. The arching guides in the Strobel book would be useful. As I say get the general shape higher up under control first and work your way down. If you can get the general arching shape over the top right but a few millimetres high you can then take the excess off and arrive at the edge height around the perimeter later.

 

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I see what you mean, how the arch inside the c bout is narrower than would be ideal. Is there any way to fix this? How will this shape affect the instrument?

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Here again judging from you photos the only part that would worry me is about the very middle of the C bouts. It looks like you have carved well into the centre arching just above the edge height. You don't have any room to play with there, more or less just the width of the channeling. It is just a matter of whether you have gone too far or not. It depends on how high the centre arching is at that point. A lower arching there will give you a little bit more room to remedy the situation if it is necessary to do so.

 

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On 8/13/2019 at 5:38 AM, fiddlerjer said:

Thanks, I'll check out Sora's videos.

Another thing as long as I'm asking about tutorials... Any recommendations for where to learn about sharpening blades and setting up/tuning planes? One thing I had known all along but really realized this past week is, my tools are nowhere near as sharp as they should be. Such a pleasure to work with sharp, finely set tools.

utube search "scary sharp"

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21 hours ago, Dennis J said:

 It is just a matter of whether you have gone too far or not. 

I'm curious, what factor do you have in mind that I pay attention to to figure out if I've gone too far? I mean what would be the repercussions? It would be nice to have the arching in its final state before I start in on the purfling. It seems like lowering the arching now would be pretty straightforward, if that's what I need to do. But I'd hate to be down the road a few steps and find that there's some problem with the arching... 

I printed out the long arch design and after one more round of planing off the two shoulders, I have a pretty nice approximation of it. What do you mean about measuring the height of the center point? I know it is 16mm (I marked to that height and thickness planed the plate where it was thicker than that, and I didn't carve more than a fraction of a millimeter away from the thickness at that point), and that the ends are 5mm thick -- that's the line I carved to around the edge. That seems to fit the curve of the arching guide well

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