Victor Gardener/Vittore Gianderini Cello

[twcellist]

There is a thread about Victor Gardener from 2005, but i was titled something different so i thought I’d create new thread. 

I’m trying to figure out values for a Victor Gardener cello because I saw one (at a pawn shop out of all places) and the guy wants $10K, but I really have no idea if that is a bargain or not. I have not been able to find anything online when it comes to cello values (I mean there is tons of info on the man himself, but nothing on values or sales.)The cello is from 1971 and signed Victor Gardener as supposed to Vittore Gianderini, which I understand is what he signed his instruments later in life. I played it and it sounds great, but also just as important it’s in pristine condition and looks like it’s never been played!  If anybody has some ideas/opinions I would certainly appreciate your feedback. 

 

 

[cellopera]

A modern Cello that sounds great and is in pristine condition for $10k? Buy it already.

[violinsRus]

unless you are able to show some pictures you will not get meaningful help here IMO.  You could very well end up paying 10K for a Chinese import with fake label, as I'm sure you've gathered by now, reading other posts.  good luck!

[duane88]

His stuff is rough, but sounds good. I have a viola here at the shop for earlier @ $7500. The last cello I sold was 10k, but that has been a few years. If it has the Mountain Mahogan fingerboard, you might want to replace it, and his set-up was wretched, so unless you can determine that it has been worked over, you'll be in for that.

I know 2 individuals who got them from him when he was alive. $750...A steal even then. He did vett buyers later on because so many people were buying just to resell. One friend said that he had to bring a letter from his teacher.

10k is reasonable, although I'd probably be happier with $8500.

[twcellist]

Thanks for your feedback. Yes I did see a viola sold by Benning Violin a while back that was also $7500 so I was predicating that $10K was probably the going rate for a cello. Good to know with regards to his fingerboards and setup and certainly something to keep in mind.

[CelloGirl1971]

I have a Victor Gardener cello from 1986.  It is an outstanding instrument and sounds 10x better than it looks (very rough scroll).  I bought it for $4k in 1989.  It was last appraised 4 yrs ago for $12k.  I'd suggest negotiating down to $7 or 8k, but it would be worth it if it's in good condition.

Where are you located!?  I'd buy it if you don't!

[twcellist]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:50 AM, CelloGirl1971 said:

I have a Victor Gardener cello from 1986.  It is an outstanding instrument and sounds 10x better than it looks (very rough scroll).  I bought it for $4k in 1989.  It was last appraised 4 yrs ago for $12k.  I'd suggest negotiating down to $7 or 8k, but it would be worth it if it's in good condition.

Where are you located!?  I'd buy it if you don't!

Thanks for your perspective as someone who owns one of his cellos.  Yes when I played it the cello sounded great and I was very surprised. I didn’t (and probably should have) paid more attention to the scroll, but the cello looked fine and it felt fine when I played it. This particular cello is from 1971 so it seems to be one of his first couple of cellos? Is it true that on his instruments he would number them? 
 

So the cello is currently in a pawn shop and I’m trying to negotiate the price. The guy is/was playing dumb and claims he doesn’t know the value, but then he blurted out 10-12K as a price he would sell, which just happens to be around the retail price. So go figure ...  (On a side note Jeff White up in Santa Clara ended up having one for sale from 1992 and it was on consignment for shade under $11,000. Not sure if it’s still available or not.)

I have a friend who deals with the pawn shop guy (more with jewelry) and my friend is trying to convince him to sell it for less. Let’s see what happens! 

[JohnCockburn]

Perhaps I should change my name to Giovanni Cazzobruciante.

[twcellist]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:44 PM, twcellist said:

Thanks for your perspective as someone who owns one of his cellos.  Yes when I played it the cello sounded great and I was very surprised. I didn’t (and probably should have) paid more attention to the scroll, but the cello looked fine and it felt fine when I played it. This particular cello is from 1971 so it seems to be one of his first couple of cellos? Is it true that on his instruments he would number them? 
 

So the cello is currently in a pawn shop and I’m trying to negotiate the price. The guy is/was playing dumb and claims he doesn’t know the value, but then he blurted out 10-12K as a price he would sell, which just happens to be around the retail price. So go figure ...  (On a side note Jeff White up in Santa Clara ended up having one for sale from 1992 and it was on consignment for shade under $11,000. Not sure if it’s still available or not.)

I have a friend who deals with the pawn shop guy (more with jewelry) and my friend is trying to convince him to sell it for less. Let’s see what happens! 

Hi. Happy news! I was able to get the Victor Gardener cello! I'm loving it and I wanted to share my pictures! 

[Jeff White]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:44 PM, twcellist said:

  (On a side note Jeff White up in Santa Clara ended up having one for sale from 1992 and it was on consignment for shade under $11,000. Not sure if it’s still available or not.)

 

Just saw this thread.  Timing is everything.  The Vittore Cello is back in the shop on Consignment.  Customer keeps changing his mind on it.  Depends on his living space, believe it or not.  Hope you like it.  I think it's a great deal for the money.

BTW. Twcellist, how did you know I had that cello?  It's not on my website?

[twcellist]

15 minutes ago, Jeff White said:

Just saw this thread.  Timing is everything.  The Vittore Cello is back in the shop on Consignment.  Customer keeps changing his mind on it.  Depends on his living space, believe it or not.  Hope you like it.  I think it's a great deal for the money.

BTW. Twcellist, how did you know I had that cello?  It's not on my website?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your message. So I saw the listing on Starving Musicians like 6 months ago or so? Anyhow, I hope you find a buyer for it as it too seems to be a nice cello as well. 

By the way there is some discussion about Gardener's work being rough and/or the setup is not so good, but at least on my cello I don't feel like the workmanship is bad or that the cello is setup poorly. Okay, maybe is not as fine as some other makers and sure maybe it's not a professional level, but we have to keep some perspective that the guy was self taught and that he even sourced and cut his own wood. That alone is very impressive! Also, he mentored many modern maker's (for example Christopher Dungey) whose instruments are now highly sought after.

[Jeff White]

Twcellist, I found the original setup (makers)not up to par either.  I didn't get crazy with the fingerboard (just got it closer), but made a new bridge, post and had to rework the pegs.  Other than that, a good deal.  Love to see a player that was looking for $100K italian cello's end up with an American one, for a fraction of the price.  Just the way it should be.  Enjoy the savings.

[PhilipKT]

On 9/28/2019 at 10:44 PM, twcellist said:

Thanks for your perspective as someone who owns one of his cellos.  Yes when I played it the cello sounded great and I was very surprised. I didn’t (and probably should have) paid more attention to the scroll, but the cello looked fine and it felt fine when I played it. This particular cello is from 1971 so it seems to be one of his first couple of cellos? Is it true that on his instruments he would number them? 
 

So the cello is currently in a pawn shop and I’m trying to negotiate the price. The guy is/was playing dumb and claims he doesn’t know the value, but then he blurted out 10-12K as a price he would sell, which just happens to be around the retail price. So go figure ...  (On a side note Jeff White up in Santa Clara ended up having one for sale from 1992 and it was on consignment for shade under $11,000. Not sure if it’s still available or not.)

I have a friend who deals with the pawn shop guy (more with jewelry) and my friend is trying to convince him to sell it for less. Let’s see what happens! 

When pawn shop owners take in widgets, they pay 2 or 3 cents on the dollar.

When they sell it, they have to pay taxes on the profit. If you offer him cash, you could probably get that cello for $5000, which is 10-15 times what he loaned on it, And he can log it in his cash books as having sold for $150 more than he paid for it. If you’re seriously interested in the cello go into the shop with a bunch of real honest to gosh cash and say what’s your cash right now price.

If it’s worth 10,000 he could send it to Tarisio himself. 

 

Edit: I read the rest of the comments and see that you have already purchased it, congratulations.

Edited November 1, 2019 by PhilipKT
Addendum

[twcellist]

2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

When pawn shop owners take in widgets, they pay 2 or 3 cents on the dollar.

When they sell it, they have to pay taxes on the profit. If you offer him cash, you could probably get that cello for $5000, which is 10-15 times what he loaned on it, And he can log it in his cash books as having sold for $150 more than he paid for it. If you’re seriously interested in the cello go into the shop with a bunch of real honest to gosh cash and say what’s your cash right now price.

If it’s worth 10,000 he could send it to Tarisio himself. 

 

Edit: I read the rest of the comments and see that you have already purchased it, congratulations.

Thanks.. yes... I initially offered him $4K 6 months ago. I took him a while to budge and while it wasn't $4K $6500 wasn't too bad. The cello is definitely worth more. Today I had a lesson with my teacher and he asked to try the cello. He was super impressed with the sound quality and said from what I paid it's a steal so that made me happy!. 

[PhilipKT]

10 hours ago, twcellist said:

Thanks.. yes... I initially offered him $4K 6 months ago. I took him a while to budge and while it wasn't $4K $6500 wasn't too bad. The cello is definitely worth more. Today I had a lesson with my teacher and he asked to try the cello. He was super impressed with the sound quality and said from what I paid it's a steal so that made me happy!. 

I agree. Pawn shop finds are the best.

[twcellist]

2 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

I agree. Pawn shop finds are the best.

I just wish I could find the pawn shop that regularly carries cellos. Maybe I can find a Strad!  Lol ...

[PhilipKT]

25 minutes ago, twcellist said:

I just wish I could find the pawn shop that regularly carries cellos. Maybe I can find a Strad!  Lol ...

Many years ago, someone walked into the Dallas Symphony rehearsal and walked off with a Del Jesu owned by the assistant concert master.

It was only insured for $250,000, but there was a 10% finders fee for anybody who recovered the instrument. I looked through pawnshops for months trying to find that violin, because I was sure that that was where such an easily recognizable Violin would end up. I was exactly right, but somebody else found it before I did, and walked away with a $25,000 reward. I was unhappy.