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Dom40

Ernst Heinrich Roth made in 1925 ( Josef Guarneri 1734 )

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23 hours ago, PhilipKT said:

Agree totally. That’s why day-trading is probably easier. But if you’re not in a hurry to sell, and you have an outlet, and the stuff you’re selling is priced low enough to be appealing and yet still provide a profit, you can avoid losing money. It’s not, however, a way to make a living, I’m not suggesting that at all.

As a matter of fact, the colleague I mentioned has never sold anything, not even his dad’s car. He has kept every single instrument and bow he ever bought.

So have I, although I am just an amateur hobbyist with a very modest collection.

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So here’s one from 1949, a Gagliano copy. Clean. Were they still good instruments in 1949?

 

Terrible pictures, btw, but they are the auction house and not mine

FA51B5D6-095A-47E4-AE57-FA0C10232F25.jpeg

0413777B-C531-45DA-82A2-D6E408F9483E.jpeg

38A17BD8-F2CD-4969-B53F-BD078FF1575D.jpeg

85E01B43-D30F-4ACF-87A8-18FE79D065A8.jpeg

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Slightly odd label with an unexpected blob of glue ...

Also, unusually, the "Nicolo Gagliano" designation is a separate label stuck onto an old label.

"Germany" is just acceptable, though 1949 was the date of partition, and we would more expect to see  GDR. But the "Germany" looks like an afterthought anyway ...

This is the period (1948-1953) when the firm was having a lot of difficulty producing and went into liquidation.

If it has a legitimate brand and a serial number then it's an EH Roth - without them it's the same violin but not a Roth, just a normal "Markie".

Overall I would be pretty suspicious of this one.

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1 minute ago, martin swan said:

Slightly odd label with an unexpected blob of glue ...

Also, unusually, the "Nicolo Gagliano" designation is a separate label stuck onto an old label.

"Germany" is just acceptable, though 1949 was the date of partition, and we would more expect to see  GDR. But the "Germany" looks like an afterthought anyway ...

This is the period (1948-1953) when the firm was having a lot of difficulty producing and went into liquidation.

If it has a legitimate brand and a serial number then it's an EH Roth - without them it's the same violin but not a Roth, just a normal "Markie".

Overall I would be pretty suspicious of this one.

Yes I’ve seen this violin it’s on invaluable. 

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2 hours ago, Dom40 said:

Yes I’ve seen this violin it’s on invaluable. 

Yes that’s where I saw it as well and with this discussion I thought I’d ask. It comes with a bow oddly stamped “occupied Germany”

the label probably still says “Germany” because it’s a leftover.

Edited by PhilipKT
Addendum

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12 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Yes that’s where I saw it as well and with this discussion I thought I’d ask. It comes with a bow oddly stamped “occupied Germany”

the label probably still says “Germany” because it’s a leftover.

After the C a F talk I thought it best not to buy it. ( labels) 

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5 hours ago, martin swan said:

Overall I would be pretty suspicious of this one.

Not to mention what looks like a soundpost crack in the back.

sp_crack.jpg

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On 8/6/2019 at 1:00 AM, PhilipKT said:

So here’s one from 1949, a Gagliano copy. Clean. Were they still good instruments in 1949?

Terrible pictures, btw, but they are the auction house and not mine

85E01B43-D30F-4ACF-87A8-18FE79D065A8.jpeg

Why is Markneukirchen on the label when it has a 1949 date? I though they moved the shop and the label changed to Bubenreuh or Erlangen in the mid1930s

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1 hour ago, jacklinks said:

Why is Markneukirchen on the label when it has a 1949 date? I though they moved the shop and the label changed to Bubenreuh or Erlangen in the mid1930s

Roth re-established the Markneukirchen workshop in the mid 1940s.

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2 hours ago, violinnewb said:

Roth re-established the Markneukirchen workshop in the mid 1940s.

Try 1990's.  Roth, like Höfner and others, moved to Bubenreuth after WW II.  The refugee story, explaining the various groups, their origins, and motivations, has been told here more than once. :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, jacklinks said:

Why is Markneukirchen on the label when it has a 1949 date? I though they moved the shop and the label changed to Bubenreuh or Erlangen in the mid1930s

I think Markneukirchen was in east Germany and after the split in ‘48, they moved to a West German location. I think those were just leftover labels which might explain why there’s a “Gagliano” label stuck in top of the original.

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You wearing those same flip-flops again, I got exactly the same pair when my wife and I were in Taiwan a couple of years ago.

meanwhile...Did you do the work yourself? If so what did you do besides just putting the top back on?

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1 hour ago, PhilipKT said:

You wearing those same flip-flops again, I got exactly the same pair when my wife and I were in Taiwan a couple of years ago.

meanwhile...Did you do the work yourself? If so what did you do besides just putting the top back on?

Yes yes flip-flops are a bad habit for being in the army I wear them all year round! Checked table for tampering, there wasn’t any so he put the table back on, new bridge, sound post, pegs and strings.

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1 hour ago, Dom40 said:

Yes yes flip-flops are a bad habit for being in the army I wear them all year round! Checked table for tampering, there wasn’t any so he put the table back on, new bridge, sound post, pegs and strings.

Oh no, I wasn’t complaining, I was actually thinking that you had excellent taste. The flip-flops I wear, which I wear all the time, cost us about three bucks. I guess you were stationed overseas somewhere.

Meanwhile, congrats on the pick up, and I would love you to list your reference books, you seem to have a different library than I do.

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39 minutes ago, PhilipKT said:

Oh no, I wasn’t complaining, I was actually thinking that you had excellent taste. The flip-flops I wear, which I wear all the time, cost us about three bucks. I guess you were stationed overseas somewhere.

Meanwhile, congrats on the pick up, and I would love you to list your reference books, you seem to have a different library than I do.

No I never went anywhere dangerous! 5 years of boxing rugby and alcohol abuse. Sorry please explain the reference book part? 

I don’t have anything rare book wise. Maybe a few old English ones that you don’t have. But they are pretty much obsolete! 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Dom40 said:

No I never went anywhere dangerous! 5 years of boxing rugby and alcohol abuse. Sorry please explain the reference book part? 

 

 

It’s just that you seem to have picked up a lot of knowledge and your choice of Violins and your choice of what to buy is pretty astute, I was wondering whether you had a nice reference library that you had memorized.

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On 8/9/2019 at 4:14 AM, PhilipKT said:

I think Markneukirchen was in east Germany and after the split in ‘48, they moved to a West German location. I think those were just leftover labels which might explain why there’s a “Gagliano” label stuck in top of the original.

Having a 1949 Markneukirchen date is completely ok, because they moved to Bubenreuth just in 1953, when it was founded as a particular new village for instrument makers.

http://www.roth-violins.de/index_eng.htm

Nonetheless one shouldn't always trust blindly in dating and labelling here - we once had (in a long forgotten period) a notorious diccussion about a Bubenreuth branded, but Markneukirchen labelled EH Roth violin, so it's not impossible that they made "special custom labelled" instruments for american tourists asking for pre-war instruments.:ph34r:

BTW, both German post war states were established in 1949, before there were occupation zones only, and it was usually not very difficult to move from one to another.

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1 minute ago, PhilipKT said:

It’s just that you seem to have picked up a lot of knowledge and your choice of Violins and your choice of what to buy is pretty astute, I was wondering whether you had a nice reference library that you had memorized.

I payed as a child and just love violins. I started doing this 10 months ago. I guess I look in places a lot of people are to proud to look. Rest is probably dumb luck. If I see a violin I like I check every auction Sale result then I check online for examples in every good dealers shop. Then just go for it. I wish I had the knowledge of a lot of people on this site!! 

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