A432 Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 In Britain, what is today passed off as a moral issue was in reality one decided by financial compulsion. An Islamic source but one which presents the underlying facts soberly and concisely : https://www.al-islam.org/slavery-from-islamic-and-christian-perspective-sayyid-akhtar-rizvi/why-slavery-was-abolished Executive summary : “Whilst, under the American flag, Cuban and other neutral sugar still found a market in Europe, British West Indian surpluses piled up in England. Bankruptcies were the order of the day. Between 1799 and in 1807, 65 plantations in Jamaica were abandoned, 32 were sold for debts, and 1807 suits were pending against 115 others. Debt, disease and death were the only topics of conversation in the island. A parliamentary committee set up in 1807 discovered that the British West Indian planter was producing at a loss. In 1800 his profit was 2 1/2 per cent, in 1807 nothing. In 1787 the planter got 19/6d profit per hundredweight; in 1799, 10/9d; in 1803, 18/6d; 1805, 12/-; in 1809, nothing. The committee attributed the main evil to the unfavourable state of foreign market. In 1806 the surplus of sugar in England amounted to six thousand tons. Production had to be curtailed. To restrict production, the slave-trade must be abolished.” FWIW
martin swan Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 57 minutes ago, A432 said: FWIW Absolutely nothing. This article, plucked at random from Google, is making the point that British sugar prices were heavily undercut by French sugar, and that advocating the abolition of the slave trade was seen as a way of ruining the French. It has nothing to do with my point, which is that our sense of humanity and inhumanity evolves. Inhumanity is regularly excused by reference to "the essential nature of human beings" - sexual exploitation of women or minors or subordinates is excused in the way that white domination was once excused. We started off talking about criminal behaviour ie. behaviour that has been deemed by society at large to be unacceptable. And yet even on Maestronet, amongst educated and enlightened appreciators of music, we find apologists for it. Why exactly slavery was abolished is irrelevant to the fact that it was and is a moral crime. But this was a test - I just wanted to see if your smoke and mirrors sophistry would extend even as far as slavery. I got my answer ... Nazi Germany next
Violadamore Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 2:42 PM, crazy jane said: I would choose statistics from the CDC over your "coincidence equals causality" illogic that is based on a faulty assumption (that sexual activity/promiscuity is increasing). "During 2005–2015, among 9th grade students, a significant linear decrease in the prevalence of ever having had sexual intercourse was identified overall (34.3% to 24.1%) and among male (39.3% to 27.3%), female (29.3% to 20.7%), black (55.4% to 31.4%), and Hispanic (40.5% to 25.9%) students."https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm665152a1.htm Similar linear declines are noted among other ages. These are not insignificant or anomalous shifts. I blame video games. You can't pry kids loose from their !@#$%%^ game terminals to do anything any more.
A432 Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 "Money talks. Bullshit walks." -- Deplorable American proverb. Every one of the ideas you cite as if it was a self-evident truth is exactly that -- an abstract idea, depending on substantive content (which you carefully evade) for such meaning as it might have. Such are the stock-in-trade of scammers everywhere (See "War on Terrorism", "War on Poverty," et al.)
AtlVcl Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 5 hours ago, violinnewb said: 1. Again, you assume that artists want "all the press they can get," including negative press. 1) If an "artist" gets his name in the press, correctly spelled, why you you think it's necessarily "negative"? As I've repeatedly tried to explain in this thread, Ms. St. John has always been an attention seeker, starting at least as far back as when she posed semi-nude for her debut CD (and garnering oodles of public attention for doing so...). Hard for me to believe she was ever a weak, retiring wallflower. Hard to imagine a more efficient way for a middle-aged, over-the-hill "artist" of getting press, especially since she knows the accused has no way to defend himself. This is why I recommended reading "The Me Decade" by Tom Wolfe, ca. 35 pages that will open many peoples' eyes.
A432 Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 But this was a test - I just wanted to see if your smoke and mirrors sophistry would extend even as far as slavery. I got my answer ... Nazi Germany next ........................................... When we reach the point where we're tossing "Hitler" around, there's not much left to say. But since it wouldn't be a satisfying Two Minute Hate for you and Blankie without having the last word, (and that being a put-down of some sort), I'll save you the trouble of coming up with one : Apologia pro vita sua All my friends are assholes. I'm an asshole too. Been an asshole all my life -- an asshole through and through. I don't live in denial of what's obviously true : Everyone's an asshole (and me no more than you). You find it liberating once you finally admit The whole thing's lame -- the status game and all that social shit. Why waste your life with make believe, pretending that you fit In with ciphers stuck in roles they're too afraid to quit ? Every time you speak your mind you lose some so-called "friends." Sometimes, as they drop like flies, you wonder where it ends. But one or two will see you through, accepting what life sends With gratitude for honest wounds that time and pond'ring mends. "Speak the Truth and Shame the Devil," Grandma used to say "Pay good heed to what folks do, ignoring what they say. Don't go along with pretense. Beware of idle play. Compromise with falsehood once, and you'll regret the day." You "don't want to hear it,?" Then don't ask me what I think. And save your airs and graces -- (like your shit doesn't stink ? ! ?) Remove your finger from my face -- my sort do not blink -- Run your righteous hubris through the grinder in your sink. Huddle with the rabbits then, afraid of rabbit blame Reduced to fear and trembling when some boss man calls your name. Keep the social pretense up, fit in, and play their game -- Pledge allegiance to the fraud that keeps you weak and tame. I've been wrong a thousand times -- done things that make me wince -- Things that haunt me in the night. They've shamed me ever since. "Asshole" is a pilgrim's path -- you walk on jagged flints But one that's made me learn and grow. Of that I am convinced. When "what you see is what you get," the picture clarifies -- Perhaps not what you're looking for, but not some slick disguise. Disturbing fake "consensus" is what your sort decries ? Well, no one needs permission to confront transparent lies. A million multiplied by zero remains a zero still But one times one's substantial, and prevails above a nil. That's my mathematics -- the stone that hones my will Makes me master of my realm, and fraud grist for my mill. Thoughtcrime is this ? Heresy ? "Hate speech" to be banned By the rubric of the ones who have this whole thing planned ? I defy them. Every one ! And by my heart and hand, Asshole though I be, I will speak free in my own land. That about cover it ?
Violadamore Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, martin swan said: Nazi Germany next https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybuKQf9p5jg
crazy jane Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Violadamore said: I blame video games. You can't pry kids loose from their !@#$%%^ game terminals to do anything any more. Like most things, it's a double-edged sword. https://www.washington.edu/news/2011/09/19/gamers-succeed-where-scientists-fail/
crazy jane Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 And while we're on the subject of Germany, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPXHRX8Q2hs
A432 Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 Hitler on Ice : Didn't look much like him (?)
martin swan Posted August 12, 2019 Report Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, A432 said: : Apologia pro vita sua All my friends are assholes. I'm an asshole too. Been an asshole all my life -- an asshole through and through. I don't live in denial of what's obviously true : Everyone's an asshole (and me no more than you). You find it liberating once you finally admit The whole thing's lame -- the status game and all that social shit. Why waste your life with make believe, pretending that you fit In with ciphers stuck in roles they're too afraid to quit ? Every time you speak your mind you lose some so-called "friends." Sometimes, as they drop like flies, you wonder where it ends. But one or two will see you through, accepting what life sends With gratitude for honest wounds that time and pond'ring mends. "Speak the Truth and Shame the Devil," Grandma used to say "Pay good heed to what folks do, ignoring what they say. Don't go along with pretense. Beware of idle play. Compromise with falsehood once, and you'll regret the day." You "don't want to hear it,?" Then don't ask me what I think. And save your airs and graces -- (like your shit doesn't stink ? ! ?) Remove your finger from my face -- my sort do not blink -- Run your righteous hubris through the grinder in your sink. Huddle with the rabbits then, afraid of rabbit blame Reduced to fear and trembling when some boss man calls your name. Keep the social pretense up, fit in, and play their game -- Pledge allegiance to the fraud that keeps you weak and tame. I've been wrong a thousand times -- done things that make me wince -- Things that haunt me in the night. They've shamed me ever since. "Asshole" is a pilgrim's path -- you walk on jagged flints But one that's made me learn and grow. Of that I am convinced. When "what you see is what you get," the picture clarifies -- Perhaps not what you're looking for, but not some slick disguise. Disturbing fake "consensus" is what your sort decries ? Well, no one needs permission to confront transparent lies. A million multiplied by zero remains a zero still But one times one's substantial, and prevails above a nil. That's my mathematics -- the stone that hones my will Makes me master of my realm, and fraud grist for my mill. Thoughtcrime is this ? Heresy ? "Hate speech" to be banned By the rubric of the ones who have this whole thing planned ? I defy them. Every one ! And by my heart and hand, Asshole though I be, I will speak free in my own land. That about cover it ? Not a Buddhist then ....!
Blank face Posted August 13, 2019 Report Posted August 13, 2019 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-integrationist/201702/psychopaths-sadists-and-the-lure-internet-aggression
A432 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Posted August 13, 2019 "O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!" -- Burns Have you made even one post in this thread that isn't an insult ? I suspect you're right that someone's trolling here, but I don't think you've got who it is identified yet.
Herman West Posted August 13, 2019 Report Posted August 13, 2019 On 8/11/2019 at 7:18 PM, A432 said: Given the number of growth hormones &c. in the food we eat and water we drink, the onset of puberty has been decreasing for years. My impression is that 11 is the new 18. My daughter is twelve years old, and based on my experience with her and her class mates, I can assure you you are dead wrong, and maybe wishfully thinking. Also, I hope you are safely kept away from preteens...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted August 13, 2019 Report Posted August 13, 2019 Forgive me... but the moderator just doesn't have the time to keep up with this thread. It's closed.
Recommended Posts