Help with maker

[ole timer]

Better pics this time, I hope! I’m very interested in what it takes to identify violins by pics. I hope I can learn some helpful advice and possibly get some ideas on the origin of my fiddle at the same time. 

The violin has some warping of the top from the neck pulling through the years. It causes the top to look square when I believe if it were new it would have been rounder next to the neck. Plus it’s made the top puff up around the neck joint. Just saying the disfigured top may be deceiving. An old Lete repair label with the “Repaired by” cut off. No label.

Any other photo I need to post please let me know. All guesses and advice is extremely welcome!

Thanks,

ole timer

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by ole timer
Upside down pic. Fixed it!

[FiddleDoug]

I'd say that your maker is in unnamed German, working out of a cottage, somewhere in the Markneukirchen area, in the mid 1800's.

[Rue]

24 minutes ago, FiddleDoug said:

I'd say that your maker is in unnamed German, working out of a cottage, somewhere in the Markneukirchen area, in the mid 1800's.

I think all these nameless craftsfolk need a collective name...something really easy to pronounce,  fun and catchy...like...

Walder Geigenkohorte

We can call them "Waldy" for short.

"Hey Sam! Love your violin! It's a beauty! Know who made it?"

"Thanks Dale! Yeah, it's another amazing fiddle made by Waldy!"

 

[Nick Allen]

16 minutes ago, Rue said:

I think all these nameless craftsfolk need a collective name...something really easy to pronounce,  fun and catchy...like...

Walder Geigenkohorte

We can call them "Waldy" for short.

"Hey Sam! Love your violin! It's a beauty! Know who made it?"

"Thanks Dale! Yeah, it's another amazing fiddle made by Waldy!"

 

Wow! Waldy is really prolific!

[Violadamore]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

I think all these nameless craftsfolk need a collective name...something really easy to pronounce,  fun and catchy...like...

Walder Geigenkohorte

We can call them "Waldy" for short.

"Hey Sam! Love your violin! It's a beauty! Know who made it?"

"Thanks Dale! Yeah, it's another amazing fiddle made by Waldy!"

 

Yup.  Congrats on your brilliant inspiration!. 

 

 

 

[jacobsaunders]

I rather doubt that it is from the Markneukirchen area. Should you open it, please post pictures of the inside work

[Delabo]

Seems unlikely to be a Joseph Dominique Lete violin as he died in 1871 !

Looks to be built on the back construction. The style is not French of that late period. I wonder who Jacob has in mind ?

[nathan slobodkin]

Nice pictures. Some of the many things which help identify a violins' possible origin are not clear though. The details of how the corners fit together are helpful as is whether the lower rib is or was made without a joint. Also as good a picture as possible of how the maker finished the throat of the scroll and top of the pegbox. It looks from your picture like the FF wings are hollowed and lighting that shows that is important.

It is an interesting old violin.and your pictures are a lot better than I can do!

[Delabo]

Is that a repairers label rather than a maker ?

Repaired in 1874 by a member of the Lete family ?

 

 

[jacobsaunders]

16 minutes ago, Delabo said:

Seems unlikely to be a Joseph Dominique Lete violin as he died in 1871 !

Looks to be built on the back construction. The style is not French of that late period. I wonder who Jacob has in mind ?

It would be, said carefully, unusual for a built on back construction to be so unsymetrical, i.e. with one f hole higher than the other, one shoulder higher than the other and so on

[Delabo]

1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

It would be, said carefully, unusual for a built on back construction to be so unsymetrical, i.e. with one f hole higher than the other, one shoulder higher than the other and so on

I wish I had your years of experience !

What I think I see is a late 18th  to early 19th century violin with a brown ground - chippy varnish - stubby corners - assymetrical all over  - grafted scroll - browny reddish varnish - BOB construction - hollowed F-wings - interesting scroll - no obvious rib grooves.

Early cottage industry Saxon ?

*edit:  I did not pay attention to what you wrote about this violin being asymmetrical  ----- This violin was likely made by one person --------    Full blown cottage industry was later and would make violins that were more or less symmetrical.

[Blank face]

It would be interesting to know if the scroll is fluted to the end at the front (looks as if so), if there's another bottom pin at the lower end and if the lower rib is divided or one piece,  LOB and rib height.

[Mampara]

Definitely no CNC used here! Looks like it was carved by a demented beaver, the asymmetry is quite striking. 

[FiddleDoug]

4 hours ago, jacobsaunders said:

I rather doubt that it is from the Markneukirchen area. Should you open it, please post pictures of the inside work

I certainly defer to the expert. I'm always learning, and will be interested in the final opinion.

[jacobsaunders]

1 hour ago, Blank face said:

It would be interesting to know if the scroll is fluted to the end at the front (looks as if so), if there's another bottom pin at the lower end and if the lower rib is divided or one piece,  LOB and rib height.

It would also help identification to know:
What shape the birds eye view of the block is (equilateral triangle or right angeled triangle

If the centre linings are let into the blocks or not

If the centre joint is reinforced with a paper (or parchment) strip

[Greg Sigworth]

Went back and looked at the pictures. That is one demented violin. Who ever made or worked on it sure used good glue and deserves credit for it still being together with all that present strain. Its history would be interesting. Went through a couple world wars maybe? Reminds me of the adage, "There was a crooked man who lived in a crooked house". Thanks for the pictures.

[ole timer]

Thanks very much to all that have given your time to identification. When I get home from work I’ll try and post a few pics and answer your questions. Thanks

[ole timer]

Far as I can tell the lord linings do not go behind the corner blocks. Least wise not as much as my old strad copy. The blocks ar flat across I believe also. The neck is amazingly straight enough to play it. I feel horrible for not detuning it and getting it fixed, but I can’t stop playing it. Best sounding violin I’ve ever had! The label is most likely a Lete repair sticker. I believe they closed shop in the early 1800’s. I think there was an attempt to make it playable in probably 1974. Hence the added 74 on the label. I think the fiddle might have been grafted and setup for use in Lete’s shop. Then somewhere between then and when it was found again it formed this asymmetrical top I assume. 

Yes, there is another square nail at the bottom also. 

[ole timer]

[ole timer]

[ole timer]

The LOB is 14 exact. The sides are from 1 inch to 1 1/16. The bottom rib is two pieces. 

[nathan slobodkin]

22 hours ago, Greg Sigworth said:

Went back and looked at the pictures. That is one demented violin. Who ever made or worked on it sure used good glue and deserves credit for it still being together with all that present strain. Its history would be interesting. Went through a couple world wars maybe? Reminds me of the adage, "There was a crooked man who lived in a crooked house". Thanks for the pictures.

22 hours ago, Mampara said:

Definitely no CNC used here! Looks like it was carved by a demented beaver, the asymmetry is quite striking. 

 Good glue? Demented beaver?

Looks to me like an interesting old violin in fairly good condition. I hope the OP will post the missing photos and measurements.

[ole timer]

[ole timer]

Been a while. Doubt anyone reads this but it's a short neck violin. Seems like it would have been lengthened when grafted. Still love the old girl though. Lots of fun!