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RIP Aaron Rosand

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48 minutes ago, l33tplaya said:

My recordings of Heifitz sound really good, but definitely the recordings aren't up to current "close mike" standards.

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding you, but with "current close mike standards" everything gets edited to a faretheewell (I speak from experience...)

Yes, tapes were edited prior to digital technology, but I don't know if tape editing extended back to the Heifetz days. I think back in the pre-union days when musicians worked for a double cheeseburger and a biggie fry, it was most likely a lot simpler to just go ahead and re-record. The answer as to whether the Heifetz tapes are edited or not would be highly informative if anyone has a source to that information.

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A famous anecdote concerns his recording of the Walton concerto. After listening to the read-through with the mic on, the conductor went looking for him to consult on potential re-dos, only to find he'd left to catch a train to his next engagement. One take. Like Segovia.

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Have we forgotten Mr. Rosand?

I met him twice. Once with Silverstein and once one on one. A Cubano went a long way with him and he was appreciative of the gesture.  I enjoyed spending time with him as much as I enjoyed spending time with his violin! 

A kind gentleman, a great teacher.

Start another thread for Stern. This one is for Mr. Rosand.

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6 hours ago, AtlVcl said:

Excuse me if I'm misunderstanding you, but with "current close mike standards" everything gets edited to a faretheewell (I speak from experience...)

Yes, tapes were edited prior to digital technology, but I don't know if tape editing extended back to the Heifetz days. I think back in the pre-union days when musicians worked for a double cheeseburger and a biggie fry, it was most likely a lot simpler to just go ahead and re-record. The answer as to whether the Heifetz tapes are edited or not would be highly informative if anyone has a source to that information.

No, I agree "everything (?)" now is edited.  What I meant was that the definition and room acoustics are largely heard in (e.g., Heifitz) older recordings versus newer recordings.  Much more diffuse sound - I was thinking it's more recording technique, for the most part and not the medium (higher definition here means better S/N).  It's not the microphones so much, as current darlings include some older tube based mics possibly as old as 60's, certainly 70's - Neumann U87, (U47 was for vocals), Coles, etc.

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4 hours ago, l33tplaya said:

 What I meant was that the definition and room acoustics are largely heard in (e.g., Heifitz) older recordings versus newer recordings.  Much more diffuse sound 

Perlman, in The Art of the Violin suggests that Heifetz insisted on the mic being much closer to his violin than recording engineers might recommend which is why recordings of Heifetz sound a bit dry and intense.

And, in almost all of my Heifetz recordings, it does NOT sound like much of the room was recorded, it sounds quite like Perlman says, like the mic is inches away from Heifetz.  There are plenty of his chamber music recordings that I think turned out mediocre for this reason.  Good for recording a Concerto though.

As for Rosand... back in the old days, we used to have a Rosand pupil who would post on the Fingerboard quite frequently.  He got me listening to Rosand's Beethoven Sonatas at an early age, helped to knock me out of my hero worship phase, helped me to realize that just because everyone listens to the same 3 or 4 CDs doesn't mean that there's all there is.

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13 hours ago, AtlVcl said:

The answer as to whether the Heifetz tapes are edited or not would be highly informative if anyone has a source to that information.


Well, they were edited.  I've read accounts by ppl at the sessions that such and such was recorded in only three takes or something along those lines. You can bet as soon as there was tape, there were tape nerds splicing tape.

And this is pretty informative.  "“In the beginning (of the LP days), Heifetz was fascinated by the technology of being able to edit a note or a phrase. When we recorded the Bach unaccompanied sonatas and partitas (in October 1952), we did a lot of editing because he was so fascinated by it."

http://banilsson.blogspot.com/2012/09/heifetz-and-low-f.html

One crazy thing that comes to mind is Milstein's "Last Recital" live album.  There's not a peep of audience sound in it.  Just dead silence.  Obviously every audience noise that happened during the playing was re-recorded out.

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5 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:

They are firmly intertwined, and Rosand was always insistent it be known :)

 

I agree. I think it is unfortunate that he wrote that post for Slipped Disc in 2015 and thereby let Stern's ghost define him once again, so late in his life 

But he should be remembered not only for his for his art but also for dedicated and generous support of his students and the Curtis Institute

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Just three things.

1. Listening to Rosand's Beethoven Sonatas made a believer of me. They became my go-to interpretation.

2. Back in 1950, when I was studying the Beethoven Violin Concerto, Heifetz's 78 rpm was the only version in our house and so became definitive for me. When I saw and heard him in concert as my 16th birthday present, the sound, presence, and relation to the orchestra (Baltimore Symphony) seemed pretty identical to the recorded sound at home (just better) --- except for the "PIZZ" in the last movement; in the concert that sounded like a pistol shot.  Since that long ago year I have attended a few other "big shot"  violin concerto concerts in which the soloist seemed to dominate as in recordings. Most notable were Hilary Hahn and Itzhak Perlman - and maybe Izaak Stern. I won't name the soloists who did not come across that way, because their performances demonstrated another characteristic of a well-composed and orchestrated violin concerto.

3. I happened to attend the third and final performance of Mahler's 8th Symphony with MTT and the San Francisdo Symphony. Immediately after the concert the audience was asked to keep their seats so two different short passages could be rerecorded to eliminate audience sounds (coughs, etc.). The recording won the Classical Recording Emmy that year.

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6 hours ago, Bill Merkel said:


Well, they were edited.  I've read accounts by ppl at the sessions that such and such was recorded in only three takes or something along those lines. You can bet as soon as there was tape, there were tape nerds splicing tape.

And this is pretty informative.  "“In the beginning (of the LP days), Heifetz was fascinated by the technology of being able to edit a note or a phrase. When we recorded the Bach unaccompanied sonatas and partitas (in October 1952), we did a lot of editing because he was so fascinated by it."

http://banilsson.blogspot.com/2012/09/heifetz-and-low-f.html

One crazy thing that comes to mind is Milstein's "Last Recital" live album.  There's not a peep of audience sound in it.  Just dead silence.  Obviously every audience noise that happened during the playing was re-recorded out.

As the blogspot says, "in the early days of the LP." So Heifetz was fascinated with new technology. That doesn't prove he needed to edit tapes for technical reasons. In the related story,  it's clear he asked to edit in one note for musical reasons, i.e. NOT BECAUSE OF TECHNICAL ONES.

 

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^True.  But it says re: the S&P "we did a lot of editing because he was fascinated by it."  I figure he thought he was improving something by editing.  Technical, musical, what have you.   Maybe the engineer who was being quoted wrote something.

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18 minutes ago, Bill Merkel said:

^True.  But it says re: the S&P "we did a lot of editing because he was fascinated by it."  I figure he thought he was improving something by editing.  Technical, musical, what have you.   Maybe the engineer who was being quoted wrote something.

The majority of Heifetz's  career was documented on 78's, which, as I have always understood it, cannot be edited.

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On 7/14/2019 at 8:07 PM, Bill Merkel said:

The article implies there was no editing before LPs.

On closer reading, you're absolutely correct. Thank you.

Larry

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