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Andreas Preuss

Are claims that Borax treatment on spruce enhance acoustic properties correct?

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3 minutes ago, Fossil Ledges said:

It was good enough for Juzek.

You're deranged even by MN standards.  That's impressive:P  :lol: 

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3 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Whatever the Cremonese did, IMHO, it wasn't a technical shortcut around sensible design and fine craftsmanship. 

Plus some wood technology, wood selection and maybe treatment. 

You could add as well that their general concept was based on relative  measures instead of absolute measures we are using today. 

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10 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Given that the best diamond, obviously, would be supercompressed carbon molecules obtainable from the vicinity of a white dwarf star, and therefore stardust itself,...

We are stardust....

 

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8 hours ago, Violadamore said:

File:Fra Angelico 009.jpg

He did a lovely job with such pigments, which are however, largely opaque

IMHO, all of the "magic varnish" and "sheep-dip" theories are counsels of desperation, and smack of sensationalism.  Most recent research is concluding that the Cremonese master violinmakers used common colophony-oil varnishes less remarkable than many of the modern recipes frequently quoted on MN, and experiments with various wood treatments have also produced less than Stradivarian results. 

Whatever the Cremonese did, IMHO, it wasn't a technical shortcut around sensible design and fine craftsmanship.  :)

 

I agree. To be the devil's advocate, I could say that the fineness of grinding, the quantity of the material used, the refractive index of the vehicle and the sinking into the wood, can make certain stuff "tolerable".
For example, very opaque cinnabar was occasionally used by Strad in his varnish in small quantities.

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1 hour ago, Alessandro Peiretti said:

I agree. To be the devil's advocate, I could say that the fineness of grinding, the quantity of the material used, the refractive index of the vehicle and the sinking into the wood, can make certain stuff "tolerable".
For example, very opaque cinnabar was occasionally used by Strad in his varnish in small quantities.

Why Cinnabar and not Pernambuco? It's safer and it only requires a few shavings to make a dye.

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30 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Why Cinnabar and not Pernambuco? It's safer

no safety inspectors or msds sheets.  probably sitting around drinking mercury at break time

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Just now, Bill Merkel said:

no safety inspectors or msds sheets.  probably sitting around drinking mercury at break time

I thought only wandering minstrels drank mercury and lead?

Strad was too busy to be consorting with ladies of the night.

And anyways we dont know if Paganini, Mozart and Beethoven really did have an incurable sumfink?

My guess is they were all hypochondriacs who eventually did get seriously ill from all the purgatives.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Why Cinnabar and not Pernambuco? It's safer and it only requires a few shavings to make a dye.

I quote a passage from "Stradivari varnish" (Brandmair / Greiner):
"Because the quantity of the vermilion found was so low, and because our practical experience with the pigment, we believe that Stradivari's primary reason for using it was not colouration. It is far more likely that he used vermilion because of its brightening properties, comparable to a metallic paint finish on cars".

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13 minutes ago, sospiri said:

I thought only wandering minstrels drank mercury and lead?

Strad was too busy to be consorting with ladies of the night.

And anyways we dont know if Paganini, Mozart and Beethoven really did have an incurable sumfink?

My guess is they were all hypochondriacs who eventually did get seriously ill from all the purgatives.

legal opium made the whole thing tolerable

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2 hours ago, Alessandro Peiretti said:

For example, very opaque cinnabar was occasionally used by Strad in his varnish in small quantities.

Here again, we just can blend cinnabar into our varnish composition or ask ourselves why it was blended into the varnish. 

I'd say that it was used as a drying agent so the color doesn't matter so much. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Alessandro Peiretti said:

I quote a passage from "Stradivari varnish" (Brandmair / Greiner):
"Because the quantity of the vermilion found was so low, and because our practical experience with the pigment, we believe that Stradivari's primary reason for using it was not colouration. It is far more likely that he used vermilion because of its brightening properties, comparable to a metallic paint finish on cars".

Doesn't Pernambuco do the same thing?

Just a few shavings soaked for a few hours, then evaporated. The precipitate is a fine powder pigment. 

I'm not sure whether it is both a dye and a pigment? I just experiment with techniques endlessly.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, sospiri said:

Doesn't Pernambuco do the same thing?

Just a few shavings soaked for a few hours, then evaporated. The precipitate is a fine powder pigment. 

I'm not sure whether it is both a dye and a pigment? I just experiment with techniques endlessly.

 

 

They are two different things. With pernanbuco you can make a lake, using metal salts for fixing the color, similarly to madder.
Cinnabar, on the other hand, is a decidedly more opaque earth, to be used much more sparingly.

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1 hour ago, Alessandro Peiretti said:

They are two different things. With pernanbuco you can make a lake, using metal salts for fixing the color, similarly to madder.
Cinnabar, on the other hand, is a decidedly more opaque earth, to be used much more sparingly.

Do I need to make a lake with Pernambuco? I have been using the raw pigment for several weeks and it hasn't faded.

Doesn't Pernambuco oxidize to red anyway?

 

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9 hours ago, sospiri said:

Do I need to make a lake with Pernambuco? I have been using the raw pigment for several weeks and it hasn't faded.

Doesn't Pernambuco oxidize to red anyway?

 

I'm referring exlusively to oil varnish and in my experience, the only natural red dye soluble in oil, is alkanna root.

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12 hours ago, Andreas Preuss said:

Here again, we just can blend cinnabar into our varnish composition or ask ourselves why it was blended into the varnish. 

I'd say that it was used as a drying agent so the color doesn't matter so much. 

 

It is a possibility.

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On 9/14/2020 at 7:39 AM, Carl Stross said:

An improvement to violins consisting ( among others ) of re-varnishing with some sort of "bug-shell" varnish was advertised in a German radio magazine from 1936 or '37. The advertiser must've been of some substance as the issue depicts the TV filming and transmission of the Olympics. I am aware of this since 1979. In 1981 I received further confirmation of the actual use of the method from an old violin maker ( former player ) who knew of this since pre-WWI and knew of a number of people who had the procedure applied to their violins with apparently good but not "Strad-like" results. 

Doesn't cochineal fit this description?

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1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

Doesn't cochineal fit this description?

No, what's being proposed is using chitin, https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/109891-how-to-make-shrimpinsect-shell-varnish/

Chitin, BTW, has noting to do with shellac chemically, as chitin is a polysaccharide, while shellac is Yet Another Weird Natural Plastic Resin,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac

Chitin has some uses, BTW.  Some people are suggesting that we eat it, while some others (more palatably, IMHO) are researching making a new antiballistic polymer out of it.

Cochineal (AKA carmine) is strictly a pigment made by chemical treatment of the carminic acid found in certain scale insects (which aren't related to the lac critters), and has no structural uses.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Violadamore said:

No, what's being proposed is using chitin, https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/109891-how-to-make-shrimpinsect-shell-varnish/

Chitin, BTW, has noting to do with shellac chemically, as chitin is a polysaccharide, while shellac is Yet Another Weird Natural Plastic Resin,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellac

Chitin has some uses, BTW.  Some people are suggesting that we eat it, while some others (more palatably, IMHO) are researching making a new antiballistic polymer out of it.

Cochineal is strictly a pigment made by chemical treatment of the carminic acid found in certain scale insects (which aren't related to the lac critters), and has no structural uses.

 

 

I know Nagavary was promoting chitin, from lobsters, crab, etc., But I thought the Cochineal

fit Carl's "bug shell varnish" descriptor more aptly than chitin.

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1 hour ago, Bill Yacey said:

I know Nagavary was promoting chitin, from lobsters, crab, etc., But I thought the Cochineal

fit Carl's "bug shell varnish" descriptor more aptly than chitin.

Nope.  Chitin and chitosan were both known and characterized by that time, and some industrial chemists were playing with them, though pressure from petrochemical plastics eventually stopped that until the recent resurgence of interest in biopolymers.  What Carl is referring to is probably one of the things that German chemists were researching in the 1930's to lower their dependence on imports, and would logically involve chitin or chitosan.  If it really was around before WW I, I still wouldn't be surprised, as some of the epochal papers on chitin date to the 1890's, and Germans were involved.  They led the world in organic chemistry in those days.  :)

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Cochineal as a possible pigment in Stradivari's Golden Period inztruments, is Joe Robson's hypothesis. But I wonder if it is Pernambuco? 

19 hours ago, Alessandro Peiretti said:

I'm referring exlusively to oil varnish and in my experience, the only natural red dye soluble in oil, is alkanna root.

I will look into this, thanks Alessandro.

 

15 hours ago, JacksonMaberry said:

If we're fixing colors with metal salts, why not just make rosinates? 

I want to find the simplest and easiest methods.

I'm having too much fun to stop. I have been rubbing tiny amounts of Pernambuco powder onto raw oil. My method dries in minutes because each coat is super thin. So far I like the results. It's not fading in the sun so I will keep going.

Next step is for a cold colophony layer to see if it affects the colour.

 

 

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