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FoxMitchell

to blacken or not to blacken the inside of the pegbox?

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I was wondering, what are people's thoughts on painting black the inside of the pegbox? Is there any specific reason to do it? Do you do it on your violins, or just varnish it like the rest of it? What do you use to paint it black?

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Don't do it! *blech*.  I think it looks cheap. 

However- others think it looks tidier. ^_^

Up to you! :D

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Black is a bit harsh,but it does have it's place. I prefer either the same varnish that the instrument is varnished with or slightly opaque pigments of a matching hue/tone of the rest of the instrument. 

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1 hour ago, FoxMitchell said:

I was wondering, what are people's thoughts on painting black the inside of the pegbox? Is there any specific reason to do it? Do you do it on your violins, or just varnish it like the rest of it? What do you use to paint it black?

Does anyone know where this aesthetic aberration started?  I've only seen it on post WW II German student-level trade fiddles, and Chinese.  Antique Markies don't have it.  :)

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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

Does anyone know where this aesthetic aberration started?  I've only seen it on post WW II German student-level trade fiddles, and Chinese.  Antique Markies don't have it.  :)

Some of the 'primordial' violins have a dark inside there, but it might be the gunk of the ages giving it the appearance of darkening.

Here some of the darkening seen on the 1710 Vieuxtemps Strad...

475869424_Stradivari1710_VieuxtempsHauser_scrollfront.thumb.jpg.a9e369ea8acb75e963802112e106004a.jpg

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41 minutes ago, FoxMitchell said:

Some of the 'primordial' violins have a dark inside there, but it might be the gunk of the ages giving it the appearance of darkening.

Here some of the darkening seen on the 1710 Vieuxtemps Strad...

 

No, I'm talking about the intentional use of opaque "flat" black paint/varnish on the inside of the pegbox.  When it's done, it's not like grunge antiquing, it's just explicitly painting the inside of the pegbox black.  IIRC, the earliest thing I've actually seen it on is a 1950's Scherl & Roth. 

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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:

No, I'm talking about the intentional use of opaque "flat" black paint/varnish on the inside of the pegbox.  When it's done, it's not like grunge antiquing, it's just explicitly painting the inside of the pegbox black.  IIRC, the earliest thing I've actually seen it on is a 1950's Scherl & Roth. 

Yeah, no idea who started that trend, but I'm guessing must have been from makers seeing the darkened insides of old violins' pegboxes, and slapping some black paint in there to 'copy' the effect? ...that and some black paint is cheaper, simpler, and hides imperfections?  ;) 

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2 hours ago, Violadamore said:

No, I'm talking about the intentional use of opaque "flat" black paint/varnish on the inside of the pegbox.  When it's done, it's not like grunge antiquing, it's just explicitly painting the inside of the pegbox black.  IIRC, the earliest thing I've actually seen it on is a 1950's Scherl & Roth. 

This intentional use of black color at the inside pegbox is usual latest from the mid 19th century at Vogtland as well as Mittenwald Verleger stuff, probably even much earlier.

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4 hours ago, Blank face said:

This intentional use of black color at the inside pegbox is usual latest from the mid 19th century at Vogtland as well as Mittenwald Verleger stuff, probably even much earlier.

Not quibbling here, but seeking information, do you have any examples, and any evidence on how common it was at that time?  :)

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1 hour ago, Mike Spencer said:

I them clean and same as the rest of a new fiddle. 

A70D3122-595B-4AAB-820A-260360206E96.jpeg

I like this approach. It's bad enough trying to change a broken string in the dim lit side wings of a stage, with black pegs. With the pegbox black too, it's even more difficult to see what's where.

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I’d think if you want your instrument to stand apart from others, it can be a way to better identify in the future. It certainly won’t be mistaken for a cheap German regardless.

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I think a bit of color contrast can create some appealing visual effects. Stradivari did it with blackened chamfers and deyed-black strips in the purfling. I don't do the blackened chamfers, but I do darken the ff-hole edges and the inside of the pegbox. Not black by any means, but much darker than the varnish on the rest of the instrument.

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Darkened pegboxes  (black or what ever color) in older instruments is a typical step after a scroll graft and bushings. Most of the expensive instruments where I work have darkened pegboxes. If you like it, do it. If you don't, don't. It's not a big deal!

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13 minutes ago, Christian Pedersen said:

Darkened pegboxes  (black or what ever color) in older instruments is a typical step after a scroll graft and bushings. Most of the expensive instruments where I work have darkened pegboxes. If you like it, do it. If you don't, don't. It's not a big deal!

Agreed, I was a bit surprised at how judgemental some folks here have been.

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5 hours ago, Violadamore said:

Not quibbling here, but seeking information, do you have any examples, and any evidence on how common it was at that time?  :)

No evidence but experience. Most of this stuff wasn’t signed nor dated. If a pegbox isn’t bushed or grafted but blackened one could assume that this was done originally. Mittenwald trade can be dated at the pegbox bottom sometimes, but this is visible only just if it’s not black. Maybe a general rule is the more roughly it was carved the bigger the probability for blackening.

But a 1950 date for the start of blackening is definitely much too late when one can easily make the observation that 2/3 of the ca 1900 period Dutzend stuff has this feature. You can work it out in EBay listings in case you need a statistical evidence.:unsure:

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2 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Agreed, I was a bit surprised at how judgemental some folks here have been.

What? Us? Never!!!

...

...

:ph34r:

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3 hours ago, David Burgess said:

Agreed, I was a bit surprised at how judgemental some folks here have been.

Same. I figured that it wasn't a very polarizing subject. 

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I have used a more or less flat black interior of the pegbox on crisp, clean blond or red violins with black picking on the chamfers and rib ends. On antique looking stuff I use a color approximating the varnish tone but more opaque and somewhat dusty looking. I match the insides of the FFs to the pegbox finish. Usually bone or ivory black looks best as it is more  brown rather than true black

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Looking at the Stradivari instruments, I am advised that the scroll detail was most likely original.  However the interior of the peg box and f holes is likely the work of Vuillaume.

on we go,

Joe

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I think with new Instruments it depends with the color of the varnish and choice of pegs. On brighter colors with Boxwood fittings i prefer to varnish the Pegbox in the same as the whole Instrument. Furthermore a question of a personal taste .

 

IMG_9778k.jpg

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