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Dorothy Delay's Numbering on Sounding Points


tchaikovsgay
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Hi. I see Dorothy Delay numbers the sounding points in the following photo, why? Should I follow the Dorothy Delay or reverse it? ("5" sounds bigger, which means more powerful and matches the numbering?)

"She started on soundpoint (or lane) five: the lane closest to the fingerboard. (DeLay used these numbers in reverse, Fischer said.) She played, then he demonstrated, using her bow on the violin under her chin. He asked her to look for the swinging of the string, the amplitude, and try to make it as wide as possible. Also, listen, feel the bow in the string, and think."—Simon Fischer

Thank you

 

violin-contactpoints-bow-2.jpg

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The higher the "Delay" "lane" number, the faster bow motion (and lowest bowing pressure) the instrument can tolerate and the softer the tone and overtone contribution. The lower lane numbers (closer to the bridge) can produce more complex tone, more projection and tolerate higher bow pressure and cannot tolerate high bow speed. Of course these lane numbers are just guides, the bow can be anywhere between them and must be used in compliance with a specific instrument's tolerance at that "latitude."

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3 minutes ago, Andrew Victor said:

The higher the "Delay" "lane" number, the faster bow motion (and lowest bowing pressure) the instrument can tolerate and the softer the tone and overtone contribution. The lower lane numbers (closer to the bridge) can produce more complex tone, more projection and tolerate higher bow pressure and cannot tolerate high bow speed. Of course these lane numbers are just guides, the bow can be anywhere between them and must be used in compliance with a specific instrument's tolerance at that "latitude."

So do you recommend "L5" as neaerest to fingerboard or bridge? Because I also use numbers to represent bow speed and bow pressure to remind myself, which "S5" and "P5" are the highest and fastest. (As the number is larger)

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11 minutes ago, Andrew Victor said:

The higher the "Delay" "lane" number, the faster bow motion (and lowest bowing pressure) the instrument can tolerate and the softer the tone and overtone contribution. The lower lane numbers (closer to the bridge) can produce more complex tone, more projection and tolerate higher bow pressure and cannot tolerate high bow speed. Of course these lane numbers are just guides, the bow can be anywhere between them and must be used in compliance with a specific instrument's tolerance at that "latitude."

Thanks for explaining! :)

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2 hours ago, Andrew Victor said:

The higher the "Delay" "lane" number, the faster bow motion (and lowest bowing pressure) the instrument can tolerate and the softer the tone and overtone contribution. The lower lane numbers (closer to the bridge) can produce more complex tone, more projection and tolerate higher bow pressure and cannot tolerate high bow speed. Of course these lane numbers are just guides, the bow can be anywhere between them and must be used in compliance with a specific instrument's tolerance at that "latitude."

That’s very good clarification. I discussed this subject with my own mentor several years ago, and he encapsulated his explanation into the comment, “volume is determined by the speed/weight ratio, color is determined by where the bow is located.”

Regarding another point you made, Zara  Nelsova taught an extremely interesting exercise that involved putting the bow as close to possible to the bridge, and drawing a heavy stroke, as slowly and consistently, without a break,as possible, from frog to tip and back to frog. The sound was excruciating, and I’m only allowed to do it when my wife is shopping, ha ha, but it does create very good bow control when you decrease pressure slightly and relocate the bow.

 

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There is a sweet spot where everything comes together and focuses. Suzuki called it "the Kreisler Highway."  Finding it and staying there is important in that system (according to a friend who spent several weeks in Japan observing him and his assistants teaching).

 

FWIW

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Your bow should be as close to the bridge as it can be without the sound breaking down, more like “lane” 2 on average. Getting too close to the bridge produces the sul ponticello effect and too close to the fingerboard produces the sul tasto effect.

As the bow moves away from the bridge, the sound loses power. In orchestra, sul tasto is employed in places where a very soft voice is desired, but without some of the the tonal color change that comes from playing con sordino.

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On 6/18/2019 at 9:33 PM, Andrew Victor said:

The higher the "Delay" "lane" number, the faster bow motion (and lowest bowing pressure) the instrument can tolerate and the softer the tone and overtone contribution. The lower lane numbers (closer to the bridge) can produce more complex tone, more projection and tolerate higher bow pressure and cannot tolerate high bow speed. Of course these lane numbers are just guides, the bow can be anywhere between them and must be used in compliance with a specific instrument's tolerance at that "latitude."

I'll use "L5" as the fastest bow motion the instrument can tolerate, i.e. almost on the fingerboard. Thank you for explaining.

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