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Valuation at Tarisio

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How does Tarisio come up with their auction estimates? I bought two violin bows in the last auctions and there seems to be no basis in reality for their estimates. 

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39 minutes ago, why said:

How does Tarisio come up with their auction estimates? I bought two violin bows in the last auctions and there seems to be no basis in reality for their estimates. 

 I think that has been discussed on here numerous times and it is a combination between what they feel it is worth and what the seller feels it’s worth.  If an item only has one interested bidder then it goes cheap.  If there are two people with deep pockets that want something bad then the price goes way up beyond the estimate. 

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43 minutes ago, why said:

How does Tarisio come up with their auction estimates? I bought two violin bows in the last auctions and there seems to be no basis in reality for their estimates. 

You felt the estimates were too low or too high?

How did you come up with your valuation?

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I think their estimates are all over the place especially comparing London versus New York.

For example, i recently sold Good French bow by maker `A `at London with cert.by Parisian expert ,similar bow at New York  but only `workshop of maker A`,in far worse condition with cert. by American expert had estimate almost 3 times as much???

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4 hours ago, martin swan said:

You felt the estimates were too low or too high?

How did you come up with your valuation?

The estimate at Tarisio for one bow (CN Bazin) was in line with what I think an auction price should be. The insurance valuation was higher than the auction price.

The estimate for the other bow (Hill) was higher than it should have been. The insurance valuation was lower than what I paid for it. 

I brought them to a very knowledgeable person in New York City.

 

3 hours ago, deans said:

Give them a call.

Call Tarisio? It was my fault for bidding high. no? They do not guarantee their estimates are correct. 

 

4 hours ago, puckfandan said:

 I think that has been discussed on here numerous times and it is a combination between what they feel it is worth and what the seller feels it’s worth.  If an item only has one interested bidder then it goes cheap.  If there are two people with deep pockets that want something bad then the price goes way up beyond the estimate. 

The seller gets to put his sentimental value on the estimate?

I am sorry if this is a duplicate. My replies are moderated.

 

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3 francois lotte bows last auction in NY, 1 silver mounted 2 nickel. Silver had lowest estimate, huh? Also seems like there's a huge surge on morizot freres bows almost always reaching high estimate or above. Funny...

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I think auction estimates are arrived at by a pretty simple process ...

1. The consignor always thinks the estimate should be close to a retail price, the auction house thinks it should be as low as possible. A compromise is reached ...

2. The auction house looks at all recent sales and tries to gradually bring estimates up in line with what buyers will accept

But things have gone a bit off piste recently with the development of "aftersales". You can anchor a high price in a buyer's head with a high estimate - the item won't sell, but you can get something close to that high estimate as an aftersale offer. Pretty much every auction house now offers an second online bite at the cherry.

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6 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I think auction estimates are arrived at by a pretty simple process ...

1. The consignor always thinks the estimate should be close to a retail price, the auction house thinks it should be as low as possible. A compromise is reached ...

2. The auction house looks at all recent sales and tries to gradually bring estimates up in line with what buyers will accept

But things have gone a bit off piste recently with the development of "aftersales". You can anchor a high price in a buyer's head with a high estimate - the item won't sell, but you can get something close to that high estimate as an aftersale offer. Pretty much every auction house now offers an second online bite at the cherry.

Is the aftersale thing is what they call "unsold item"?  I would expect that after sale prices should be closeer to the lower estimate.  After all the item didn't sell during the auction, or are we talking aabout reserve prices?

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9 minutes ago, martin swan said:

I think auction estimates are arrived at by a pretty simple process ...

1. The consignor always thinks the estimate should be close to a retail price, the auction house thinks it should be as low as possible. A compromise is reached ...

2. The auction house looks at all recent sales and tries to gradually bring estimates up in line with what buyers will accept

But things have gone a bit off piste recently with the development of "aftersales". You can anchor a high price in a buyer's head with a high estimate - the item won't sell, but you can get something close to that high estimate as an aftersale offer. Pretty much every auction house now offers an second online bite at the cherry.

Nothing simple about it that i can understand ,how do you explain my example a few posts up???

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3 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

Nothing simple about it that i can understand ,how do you explain my example a few posts up???

Different people doing the estimating?

Different consignors?

Both were yours or just the first one?

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Just the first one. I get the impression that the people you deal with (at Tarisio) don`t have much of a clue to be polite, despite appearing nice and courteous.:) Unless its written down in front of them.

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Different auction houses seem to have different strategies. Brompton's for example seem to consistently set their estimates (and correspondingly the vendors' reserves) on the high side. Consequently a high proportion of their items are unsold at auction; the 35% I counted in their most recent sale is actually rather lower than in some previous sales. Presumably the vendors understand this and are happy to entrust the aftersale process or reconsign their items to a later sale. One violin I was interested in appeared in 4 consecutive sales. Other auction houses seem to achieve a much higher sales rate with as few as 10% unsold. This is what makes the game interesting!

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Auction estimates are very hard to interpret if you don’t know the condition of the items. A silver mounted bow would normally sell for more than a nickel bow by the same maker, but what if the silver bow had cracks, a replaced handle, or a different frog?

There’s a story behind each item, and you’re at a disadvantage as the bidder if you don’t know the details.

There are a lot of people who want to own items by well known makers, and they’re happy to pay unprecedented amounts to get them. This is not always the case, but there are people who take pride in paying the highest recorded price for an item.

So much is at play in the auction scene; just looking at the thumbnail pictures and the numbers really paints a rather incomplete picture. 

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